Salvage or junk? (reed question)

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:49 am

The bridal was removed for the photograph, but noting the construction of this reed, the gap along its edge and the mis-alignment of the slips (side to side), would any of you suggest trying to re-tie it to the staple, or just dumping it and starting over? Its had problems ever since it was new with wonky notes and screeches. It hardly makes any noise at all now. I had tried waxing the edges, with little to nil affect. Also the lips aren't perfectly symetrical - meaning the radius of curvature is greater on one side than the other (one side is flatter). I'm interested in strictly operational responses and not any regarding the skill of the person making the reed or any of that - simply put, would you think of this reed as saveable or should it just be tossed out as garbage. If anyone has further questions along the lines of it's construction I will do my best to expand there.

Thanks!

Brian~

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:46 am

I'd bin it...
Mainly because it would take less time to make a new better one than fiddling with a probable lost cause.
But perhaps someone can stick a needle in a doll or something so it will work again..

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:02 pm

It's always worth deconstructing the reed and putting it back together, rather than chucking it. There's many things can be learned by altering the staple (which could be the cause of the non-conformity of symmetry)and it's insertion etc., unless you're making you're own, then, as Rick said.......

Alan

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:02 pm

I have to agree on keeping/adjusting the staple, good point!
Certainly when it came with the chanter and/or was made for it at some point and played well.
And i assumed that fiddling with it or making a new one was meant.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:34 am

Hi Rick,

I wouldn't say this reed ever played "well" as such in the chanter, but it did play better than it does now. My main concern was if it was wise to bother tinkering with it or not. Overall the construction of this reed seems to me to be sketchy at best and I just wasn't convinced it was even worth messing with.

B~

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:17 am

I guess it depends if you are willing to settle for "better" or want to spend time making a really really good one from scratch.

Dionys · Post by **Dionys** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:04 am

You can take time to play with it to see if you can seal the edges, but it's pretty unlikely you'll get a happy result. I'd take it apart, keep the staple/bridle and maybe look at the reedmaking technique/take measurements. Then chuck the A.D. portion and remake it.

Dionys

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:06 am

See, that's just it. This reed was *supposed* to be "better" than just about anything out there - and it was barely playable. I'm not even certain if the staple is worth hanging on to because its been so hard to get consistent tone out of this one. Is there a formula one can use to determine if they have the correct staple? And with the slips so unequally curved, would re-tying them really do anything? I thought that the inner curvature of the slips (at least in relation to each other) was due to both the gouge and sanding cylinder diameter. If this is the case, would re-tying be anything more than an exercise in futility?

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:11 am

Like AlanB said, if the staple is not symetrical there's a good chance that it's causing the one blade to be "flat"
Ripping it apart and adjusting the staple could help but that would also change the staple volume, which *could* cause new problems.

The best thing you can do is contact the maker of the chanter if you can and ask for staple/blade measurements.
If that's not an option, try mr heggarty's method/measurements.
Not sure if they can be found online though.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:49 am

I seem to recall having David's book somewhere....I'll see if I can find it - or perhaps borrow it if needed. Going back to the maker of this reed is not an option in this case.

Thanks Rick.

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:46 pm

Side shifters and non-sealers hardly ever work well. I'd never bother with a reed displaying any of the symptoms you're talking about. Retie that puppy!
Make sure the wrapping is on firmly. Or put a dot of glue on the blades to keep them in place.

tommykleen · Post by **tommykleen** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:10 pm

I have a BK C reed that is doing the same thing. Benedict suggested soaking the unbound blades in wood alcohol or isopropal for a few days and then slowly drying them out over a several day period. I am in the process of this right now. He says that it can reclaim a reed in such a state. Worth trying before chucking.

t

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:29 pm

The sections of the head can move around and you can even insert and withdraw the staple from the head with too much manipulation of the head.

I think David Daye (you just can't leave him alone, huh?) may have used a couple of different reed designs, but without seeing the entire head, it is impossible to tell which design this is. There are generally two designs of reeds, but from the posted pix, I can't see the taper, so I don't know if it is a "square" or "tapered" reed design.

Personally, if the reed were mine, I would untie the head and examine the edges of the slips to see if there is any "garbage" left from the wax attempt. If so remove it.

The side leak can be approached two different ways, according to the design.

Generally, the square design works best for tuning the Es of the O'Flynn family of concert Rowsome chanters, but have the problem of the sides opening with weather changes. I recommend using Elmer's glue for the side seal, myself, as I prefer this design because I don't have to "goose" the E into tune as nearly as much.

The lip opening adjustment is easier on square reeds, because you can have a movable bridle. From the marks on the head, I suspect this to be a square design.

If you prefer the tapered design, (better side seal, worse tuned Es), sand down the taper so that the sides of the reed head edge aren't parallel, but taper slightly, increasingly more towards the tail. This makes the sides easier to keep sealed with changes in weather/humidity.

When the bridle is added to the tapered design, the reed taper prevents it from being slid up and down, so you have to use fingers/pliers to manipulate the bridle to open/close the lips.

Choose your method of repair of the reed.

Examine the area near the lips and make sure it isn't rough and remove any extra "stuff" that might be on the head.

Use clear tape or some waxed thread and wrap the lip end of the head for a distance long enough to hold the head edges together properly, insert the staple the proper distance and re-tie the reed. Add bridle, check for leaks, adjust lip opening and try.

I only see one thing that might be of concern:

Also the lips aren't perfectly symetrical - meaning the radius of curvature is greater on one side than the other (one side is flatter).

I have one reed like this that plays OK, but I don't trust it. Slipping heads on the staple can also cause this because the blades aren't aligned.

If the two sides of the head aren't very similar in cane/thickness/scrape, it can cause this problem, but when I examined Paddy Keennan's reed when I saw him in concert in Charlotte, NC a couple of years ago, his lips looked like a D.

He sounded great except his bass drone (second time he played his new drones in public) needed some wrapping on the tenon as it would slide flat when he moved around.

Mess with it some and see if you can't revive it.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:47 am

OK, so let's see:

Firstly there is no 'garbage" inside the reed at all. None. I'm not actually certain how one would be able to place any of said "garbage" inside the reed itself unless they were extremely careless.

Secondly, it seems the malformation in the symetry of the lips isn't nearly as big a concern as I was originaly lead to believe. Interesting to note. Originaly I was told that this type of meeting of two edges not fairly well matched would cause the 'valving' of the reed lips to loose much of it's effectiveness and the reed would consequently loose it's...oh what's the word used now...."NYAHH"??

Third, I'll have a try at the isopropyl trick and see what this may do for the curves. Thanks everyone for the information so far.

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:24 am

Brian Lee wrote:I'm not actually certain how one would be able to place any of said "garbage" inside the reed itself unless they were extremely careless.

Just wait.

You would be surprised at the gunk that can be in the air that moves through the reed and the things that manage to get inside reeds without extreme carelessness.

I use a 10X jeweler's loupe to examine things when a speck of something got in the lips of one of my reeds that I couldn't see. It looked perfect but wouldn't make a sound.

Paddy's bridle actually dug into the side of the reed that was flat, btw, so that may be part of his reedmaking style.

For my reedmaking, I believe in Benedict Koehler's saying, "Don't give a reed an oportunity to be bad because it will." Eugene Lambe also had some good advice, "Never become emotionally attached to a piece of arundo donax" (but I still miss the reed I played for 7 years).

Also, you might read over a Koehler article in the club publication on reed autopsies for good notes to take on disassembly of reeds. You have a head start with that reed since your reed design is known and widely available.