Musical sin

[E = Fb]

It's something to be avoided, even though everyone does it, at least to some extent. Less is always better.
Some people defend it, but we all know instinctively that this is not the right view.
If we can't possibly avoid it, we should at least minimize it. Do it discreetly and quietly.
It's forgiveable, but we shouldn't persist in it, deluding ourselves into thinking it a virtue.

With all the confusing and contradictory information out there, one needs a clear view on this subject and this is how I have come to think about tonguing.

[glauber]

If you're talking about tonguing in whistle playing, there's nothing wrong with that.

[Wombat]

I don't agree that one should make a conscious effort to avoid it. Some players tongue more than others, as one would expect. Since there are open (legato) and closed (staccatto) styles in piping, why wouldn't the same be true for whistling?

Even those teachers who tell you not to tongue often get a surprise when you point out how often they do it themselves.

My view is that you should develop your style by absorbing the styles of the people—not necessarily whistlers—who you want to influence you and by incorporating what you learn into your own playing. If you do that and it sounds right for what you are aiming for ..you will be tonguing about as often as you should be. If it doesn't sound right, then tonguing is one of the many things you might not be doing right.

If you try to conform to a less-is-more slogan, you are in danger of making the mistake of thinking that tonguing too much is the problem rather than tonguing in the wrong places for the phrasing you are trying to achieve. You might actually be not tonguing enough. Tonguing, or not tonguing for that matter, isn't hard. Concentrate on the phrasing and the tonguing will take care of itself. Or so I think.

[U2]

I learned some very poor habits, early on, listening to someone who confidently informed me that whistling ornamentation was intended to reflect that of pipers, and encouraged me to avoid tonguing. That person doesn't play the whistle, and in the end I had to undo some poor technique directly attributable to bad advice.

It's about balance, and it's easily over-used, but I've yet to personally meet a good whistler who puts down tonguing altogether.

[chas]

It's folk music. There are no rules. Play however you like.

[Bloomfield]

It's folk music. There are no rules. Play however you like.

That's nonsense, I think. Everybody can play as they like of course, and no one should tell others what to do or not to do. But that applies to you playing on your own and your own folk music. It doesn't apply when you actually play *with* folk. And in this respect, there is no difference between folk music and non-folk music (you can pay Schubert your way at home, but not in the orchestra). Folk music has rules just the same as classical, even if the rules are different and you might not find them listed in a book. Just try taking a washboard to a good Irish music session and playing the same beat on every reel. You'll find very quickly that there are rules and how they are enforced in folk music. (Same applies to bluegrass sessions, and harp meets, etc. etc.)

As for the tonguing: In my experience with whistling in Irish Trad music it helps to regard tonguing as a form of ornamentation, just like cuts and taps, rolls and cranns, triplets and slides. That means you'd want to be able to play without tonguing (even if you only do it for practice) and you'd want to add tonguing to your music with the same careful stylistic attention that you'd apply to the placement of cuts and taps etc.

[msheldon]

If you're talking about tonguing in whistle playing, there's nothing wrong with that.

I agree, in fact, one of the foremost "old-timers" Packie Manus Byrne, makes extensive use of tonguing.

"Unlike many traditional flute and whistle players, who use tonguing sparingly or not at all, Packie admirably deomnstrates the expressive possibilities of this technique. In fact, he makes more generous use of tonguing than perhaps any other whistle player in Ireland. There is a parallel to be made between Packie's employment of tonguing and the considerable use of single-stroke bowing by Donegal fiddlers."

From A Dossan of Heather

His technique for tonguing triplets is especially unique, and pretty easy to accomplish.

[Ridseard]

I went through a minimal tonguing phase, and it really sounded stupid. Lesson learned: Don't avoid tonguing, just do it in the right places.

[Mongoose of Righteousness]

Bloomie, you are SUCH an arteeest!

[Bloomfield]

Bloomie, you are SUCH an arteeest!

I know it hurts to be wrong*, Mongie. Doesn't mean we don't love you.



*) not from personal experience, of course.

[peeplj]

I wouldn't view tonguing as ornamentation; rather, I would view both tonguing and ornamentation as differing forms of articulation.

--James

[TonyHiggins]

Rules and policies on playing styles may not be as useful as trying to figure out what sounds good. That takes training in itself. The best way to evaluate yourself is to record yourself solo playing and listen back. Critique yourself and try something you hope will be an improvement- record that and decide. There are ways to make tonguing sound good or bad and ways of non-tonguing that work or don't. Listen to yourself and train yourself by listening to good players.
Tony
capiche?

[Mongoose of Righteousness]

Good comment Tony.

[E = Fb]

I find no noticeable difference in sound between tonguing the end of the whistle and using the "top of the mouth, behind the teeth" method.
The sound is equally "hard". If fact I prefer the sound of hitting the end of the whistle.

On whistles that have a long "beak" I've found I can get a softer sounding tonguing action by putting my tongue under the beak. The sound that comes out when I tongue is much softer. It becomes not so much a "blip" in the music as a "gag" or choke. The downside is that it's a less natural and comfortable way of doing things. And it doesn't work for Susato's. Since I started doing this I find myself inadvertently putting more than just the beak of the Susato into my mouth. Hate that.

Would anyone like to comment?

[Wombat]

Since I come to whistle from saxophone, I tongue with my tongue. It never occurred to me that there was any other way of doing it.

I'm not sure I fully understand what the alternative is that you're offering.