a bit off topic (old time / bluegrass - ish)

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:31 am

We're on a Cripple Creek roll here. There are two versions at efolk you can listen to. Go to the main page and search Cripple Creek. You should get two responses. Then click "more info" For Roger Howell, there's only one album so no problem. For the Old School band there are four things listed. Choose the first line that says "classics". I hope this isn't too confusing. The mandolin break on the version by the Old School group gives you some idea of the kind of variations you can do.

http://www.efolkmusic.org/

Steve

Rick Davidson · Post by **Rick Davidson** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:29 am

cowtime wrote: Rick, what's the last name and where in Southwest Va are your folks from?

The relatives in Southwest Virginia are my former in-laws... my son's Grandparents etc. They are from Newport (Reynolds) and Bluefield (McFarlane).

Most of my ancestors came from Scotland and other British Isles (approx. half) (Curry, Brown, Davidson, Cunningham, Stephens) or France and Germany.

One of my Grandfathers, James Good Brown, (still alive at 102) grew up in the Foothills of Pennsylvania, and played violin/fiddle and guitar. He was a minister's son, and he also became a minister in 1920 at age 19; when he went to his first "Hoe-Down Pot Luck Dinner" and played his first improv Old-Time music. He was classically trained before that, and ended up playing in the Hartford Symphony. He never lost his love of folk music. He says playing by ear really taught him a certain feel for music.

It only occurred to me when he was 98 and talking about some of this, that he started playing before the first commercial Old-Time recordings and before the term Old-Time was coined.

The last time I played with him at his 101st birthday was amazing. Another friend of mine that was with me said they could not believe how he could listen to a waltz he never played and just jump on playing beautiful harmonies the first time through the tune.

spittin_in_the_wind · Sat Jan 17, 2004 12:09 pm

Rick Davidson wrote:
One of my Grandfathers, James Good Brown, (still alive at 102) grew up in the Foothills of Pennsylvania, and played violin/fiddle and guitar. He was a minister's son, and he also became a minister in 1920 at age 19; when he went to his first "Hoe-Down Pot Luck Dinner" and played his first improv Old-Time music. He was classically trained before that, and ended up playing in the Hartford Symphony. He never lost his love of folk music. He says playing by ear really taught him a certain feel for music.

It only occurred to me when he was 98 and talking about some of this, that he started playing before the first commercial Old-Time recordings and before the term Old-Time was coined.

The last time I played with him at his 101st birthday was amazing. Another friend of mine that was with me said they could not believe how he could listen to a waltz he never played and just jump on playing beautiful harmonies the first time through the tune.

Rick, you ought to see if he will let you record him and see if you can get it archived somewhere. He sounds like a precious resource!

Robin

RonKiley · Post by **RonKiley** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:53 pm

Stevek Thanks for the banjo addiction link. That is one that I didn't have. I found 3 versions of Cripple Creek on the BG listing. The 3rd one was the one you cited and it is definitely the best. The one before that is just flat out played wrong. The first one was OK but not like the one you cited. Of course once again I am prejudiced because that is the way I learned it.

Bretton, I have the banjo tablature that pretty much matches that version. I could scan it and send it to you as a jpg image but I don't think it will help you to learn it on the whistle though.

BTW Rick my wife has Webb family in Bluefield as well as Webbs, Freemans, and Tibbs in the Bastian, Chatham Hill and Rich Valley areas.

Ron

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:01 pm

RonKiley wrote:Stevek Thanks for the banjo addiction link. That is one that I didn't have. I found 3 versions of Cripple Creek on the BG listing. The 3rd one was the one you cited and it is definitely the best.
Ron

You're right. I missed one of them. Not too hot, is it? I recommend going to the old time part of that page and listening to the tunes by Ed Britt and Don Borchelt. There are also a few good things you can access via the Banjo-L homepage under subscribers MP3s. I particularly like Allen Feldman's clawhammer version of Elzhick's Farewell.

Steve

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:02 pm

SteveK wrote:There are also three versions of Cripple Creek at this website
http://www.banjoaddiction.com/
There are two in the section called bluegrass and one in the section called old time. I recommend the one by Tom McNemar in the bluegrass section. The other one in bluegrass is either a version with extra beats or else the guy is playing it wrong.

Oh, yeah! It's wrong! The same guy(?)'s version of John Henry is pretty garbled, too.

Q: How many b*nj* players does it take to eat a possum?

A: Two. One to do the eatin' and one to watch for traffic.

RonKiley · Post by **RonKiley** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:07 pm

Did you ever notice the similarities between banjo players and Bodhran players?

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:28 pm

cowtime wrote:Darwin- when you talk about links to Western tunes," The Streets of Larado" immediately springs to mind. The lyrical similarities to "When I Was On Horseback" make it pretty apparent that these tunes are at least "kissin' cousins".?

Yep, that's a good one. Parts of the story line seem to be related to a song called, "One Morning in May", "When I Was a Young Girl", "The Bad Girl's Lament", or "The Maiden Cut Down in Her Prime". The melody I've heard is different, though.

Are you familier with The Mudcat Cafe site? You can search for lyrics to songs by the first letter of the title. It's at http://www.mudcat.org/ and it includes some Irish and Scottish songs (and a wonderful song called "Paradimethylaminobenzaldehyde", to the tune of "The Irish Washerwoman") and MIDI files for the melodies.

One Morning in May

When I was a young girl, I used to seek pleasure,
When I was a young girl I used to drink ale;
Right out of the alehouse and into the jailhouse,
Out of a barroom and down to my grave.

Come Papa, come Mama, and sit you down by me,
Come sit you down by me and pity my case;
My poor head is aching, my sad heart is breaking,
My body's salivated and I'm bound to die.

Go send for the preacher to come and pray for me;
Go send for the doctor to heal up my wounds;
My poor head is aching, my sad heart is breaking,
My body's salivated, and Hell is my doom.

I want four young ladies to bear up my coffin,
I want three young maidens to carry me on,
And each of them carry a bunch of wild roses,
To lay on my body as I pass along.

One morning, one morning, one morning in May,
I spied this young lady all clad in white linen,
All clad in white linen and cold as the clay.

By the way, a fairly well-known fiddler who was recorded in the 1920s, Uncle Eck Robertson, was from Texas.

burnsbyrne · Post by **burnsbyrne** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:33 pm

RonKiley wrote:Stevek Thanks for the banjo addiction link. That is one that I didn't have. I found 3 versions of Cripple Creek on the BG listing. The 3rd one was the one you cited and it is definitely the best. The one before that is just flat out played wrong. The first one was OK but not like the one you cited. Of course once again I am prejudiced because that is the way I learned it.

Bretton, I have the banjo tablature that pretty much matches that version. I could scan it and send it to you as a jpg image but I don't think it will help you to learn it on the whistle though.

BTW Rick my wife has Webb family in Bluefield as well as Webbs, Freemans, and Tibbs in the Bastian, Chatham Hill and Rich Valley areas.

Ron

But have you heard PDQ Bach's "Gehen auf dem Krippel Bach"? It's a part of his "Blauen Grass Sonata". Great stuff!
Mike

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:35 pm

Rick Davidson wrote:The tune that lead me to my obsession with Old-Time music was "Soldiers Joy"... which I believe was called "Kings Head Reel" in the British Isles. I heard relatives from Southwest Virginia playing a banjo and guitar duet, and thought the tune sounded very familar. When they told me the name, I realized that this was the same tune I played on the fife growing up in Williamsburg Va. Great whistle tune with String Band accompanyment.

Hey Rick, check out the first RealAudio link at http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/congress.htm

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:13 pm

SteveK wrote:
RonKiley wrote:Stevek Thanks for the banjo addiction link. That is one that I didn't have. I found 3 versions of Cripple Creek on the BG listing. The 3rd one was the one you cited and it is definitely the best.
Ron
You're right. I missed one of them. Not too hot, is it? I recommend going to the old time part of that page and listening to the tunes by Ed Britt and Don Borchelt. There are also a few good things you can access via the Banjo-L homepage under subscribers MP3s. I particularly like Allen Feldman's clawhammer version of Elzhick's Farewell.

Steve

That's an excellent playing of Cripple Creek. (of course I like the "old time way better, just personal preference).

And the "iffy" version is just plain awful. Talk about bad timing....

There's a good example of Mole in the Ground under clawhammer too. Some of that clawhammer playing is just awful though......

I can't get the mustrad link to play.

And, I was born in Bluefield, WVA!!! We've got some Reynolds and McFarlanes down this way too.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:11 am

cowtime wrote: That's an excellent playing of Cripple Creek. (of course I like the "old time way better, just personal preference).

And the "iffy" version is just plain awful. Talk about bad timing....

There's a good example of Mole in the Ground under clawhammer too. Some of that clawhammer playing is just awful though......

That site is for contributers to the alt.banjo discussion group. It seems like they must take all submissions regardless of quality. I liked Andy Alexis' piece in the clawhammer section and a couple of others too. I still think the Ed Britt and Don Borschelt pieces with two banjos are nice. They're in the section called old time. Hank Schwartz' piece, Lady Margaret, has the same melody as Shady Grove. I wonder if that's the original melody and the source of Shady Grove.

Did you go to the efolk address, Cowtime? The Clawhammer version of Cripple Creek ther by Roger Howell is pretty decent. However, after 40+ years of playing clawhammer banjo, I find pieces like Cripple Creek wear a little thin. There just isn't that much to it. I think it would take a banjo genius like Reed Martin to make a new and interesting version of that tune. I'm sure he could do it.

Steve

Rick Davidson · Post by **Rick Davidson** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 10:18 am

Darwin wrote:
Rick Davidson wrote:The tune that lead me to my obsession with Old-Time music was "Soldiers Joy"... which I believe was called "Kings Head Reel" in the British Isles. I heard relatives from Southwest Virginia playing a banjo and guitar duet, and thought the tune sounded very familar. When they told me the name, I realized that this was the same tune I played on the fife growing up in Williamsburg Va. Great whistle tune with String Band accompanyment.
Hey Rick, check out the first RealAudio link at http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/congress.htm

Thanks Darwin! I have a Gift Certificate from County Sales that I got for Christmas. I'm going to take a look at their website to see if this CD is on it. Been looking for something to spend it on... this looks interesting.

Rick Davidson · Post by **Rick Davidson** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 10:29 am

spittin_in_the_wind wrote:
Rick Davidson wrote:
One of my Grandfathers, James Good Brown, (still alive at 102) grew up in the Foothills of Pennsylvania, and played violin/fiddle and guitar. He was a minister's son, and he also became a minister in 1920 at age 19; when he went to his first "Hoe-Down Pot Luck Dinner" and played his first improv Old-Time music. He was classically trained before that, and ended up playing in the Hartford Symphony. He never lost his love of folk music. He says playing by ear really taught him a certain feel for music.

It only occurred to me when he was 98 and talking about some of this, that he started playing before the first commercial Old-Time recordings and before the term Old-Time was coined.

The last time I played with him at his 101st birthday was amazing. Another friend of mine that was with me said they could not believe how he could listen to a waltz he never played and just jump on playing beautiful harmonies the first time through the tune.
Rick, you ought to see if he will let you record him and see if you can get it archived somewhere. He sounds like a precious resource!

Robin

Hi Robin,

I do plan on doing that if I get another chance, and did do that when he was 98. Taped him on a home video recorder. It was interesting that he has tunes in his head that I've never heard and that he refers to by the name of the person he learned from 80 years ago.

He now lives in New Hampshire in Haverhill in the Conneticut River Valley, probably not far from you, but I guess that is relative. It takes me 12 hours driving.

But saddly to say, his health has turned for the worse since taking a fall just before last summer.

Your are right he is a precious resource but for far more than music. His insights on life are great. He has seen quite a bit.

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:10 pm

Any recordings anyone can get of the oldtimers playing only gets more and more important as time goes on.

Back in the 60's my Dad took our reel to reel recorder to several of the "music makin's" and he recorded it ALL. You can hear of course the musicians playing the tunes, but also the "in between" where a tune would be suggested, a story about it sometimes, the stomping feet of the dancers(some places the floor would be swaging in time to the music from the flat footing, even us kids trying out a tune or too.

A few years before my Dad died, my brother made him a cd of the best of these recordings. He dug up a photo of the group for the cover. It is one of my prize possessions.