Seery or M&E ?!? (Virtual Tug-O-War)

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:21 am

peeplj wrote:
And I think you're right: it is always better to try a flute yourself.

What gets to be the real challenge is when someone can't.

--James

Yup, I hear you. Living in the sticks of southern Idaho I find it near impossible to try anything I don't own.

My only solution has been the "Buy two-Sell one" strategy. Though I understand that this isn't an option for everyone and gets to be a lot tougher financially with flutes than with whistles and such.

The other point I would make is that whatever flute you get will take some time to get to know. Also your playing skills will develop. I've been playing for a couple of years now and felt I was making pretty good progress but just the other day something happened (I have no idea what) but my tone and power have taken a quantum leap.

I guess my point is that whatever good flute you get will have a lot to teach you and give you much oppurtunity for development as a player.

I spent a lot of time looking for just the right whistles for the sound I wanted...time well spent.

But with the flute I think the best time spent is looking for just the right embouchre or just the right breath control.

If you want a polymer flute get one of those two. It will have much to offer.

Have fun,

Doc

Leonard · Post by **Leonard** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:36 am

Well ... hope I haven't been too hard on it.

I want to say I loved my Seery from the first note and still love it for its nice and strong tone. But since I changed flute because of this "out of tune" thing, I tought it would be important to tell it.

Speak friend and enter

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:20 am

Leonard, you have not been too hard on it. You gave valuable information.

rama · Post by **rama** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:06 pm

Given the discussion so far, are the sounclips of M&E and the Seery realistic? Do they represent to one who is unfamiliar with those flutemakers' flutes a fair and somewhat accurate sampling? Or are the samplings grossly misleading, way off course, and too tainted?
I'd say that they are a fairly typical sampling of the way the flutes sound and are how most people who actually wind up getting one of those flutes sound. Also, somebody who is drawn to those flutes and find them appealing could expect similiar results or at least now know what to expect.
Of course every player is different and each individual flute by a maker may be a little different but for the most part some light has been shed on the characteristics of these flutemakers' flutes.

what's the consensus among the M&E and Seery players?

ChrisLaughlin · Post by **ChrisLaughlin** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:11 pm

In regards to the Olwell being easy to play - it is indeed easy to create a pleasing tone with little work, but to keep a focused tone, maintain proper tone support, breath properly, etc takes quite a bit of work and a lot of energy. My Olwell is superb in every way, but it is a very athletic flute to play. I can, indeed, just breath into it and get a note, but playing a set of reels at full volume, good tone, crisp response, is enough for me to break a sweat.

Best,
Chris

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:57 pm

Chris, did you listen to my Olwell clip or are you just talking about Olwells in general?

Matt Molloy used to say he was saving his Olwell for when he got too old to play his older, more finicky flute. He said the Olwell was so easy that he was afraid he'd get lazy.

Let it be known that I believe that an Olwell flute is capable of a large range of tonal possibilities (pure and sweet, honking and reedy, everything in between), and my PREFERRED sound, for slow-ish tunes like the one in the clip, is the one I played. I like pure and sweet for sweet tunes. I like reedy for faster, harsher things. I can do both.

By the way, tone (embouchure) is something I find extremely easy. It comes naturally to me. That's mostly what I evaluate in a flute, how it sounds with proper embouchure. I can get to the heart sound of a flute with the first blow or two. I find everything else a bit more difficult, especially rhythm and endurance. I do not play flutes in sessions. Rather, I play them mostly in my living room for my own enjoyment. That may change, but not for a long time.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:16 pm

ChrisLaughlin wrote:In regards to the Olwell being easy to play - it is indeed easy to create a pleasing tone with little work, but to keep a focused tone, maintain proper tone support, breath properly, etc takes quite a bit of work and a lot of energy. My Olwell is superb in every way, but it is a very athletic flute to play. I can, indeed, just breath into it and get a note, but playing a set of reels at full volume, good tone, crisp response, is enough for me to break a sweat.

Best,
Chris

Chris, you're a damn Grinter weenie.........

Loren

ChrisLaughlin · Post by **ChrisLaughlin** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:10 pm

Hi Jessie -
No, I didn't listen to the clip you posted. I didn't read the thread well enough to know that you posted one.
As for my comments, those are just how I feel about my Olwell. Your experience may be different and just as valid for you. I'm a very energetic player, like to play with some serious volume and honk, and am not satisfied until the flute sounds more like a horn than a flute. That takes me a LOT of work. This probably means that my embouchure needs a lot of development (it does), that I need more arobic excercise (I do), that my playing style requires a lot of energy (it does), etc. Anyhow, it's great that you find your Olwells so easy to play. I find mine a tremendous joy to play AND a good workout.
As for what good old Molloy says about Pat's flutes - Molloy is the master and him saying that a flute is easy for him to play doesn't mean that it will be easy for everyone to play. He's a lean, mean, fluting machine with lip and lungs to spare.
Loren, I hereby challenge you to a flute duel!
Chris

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:48 pm

Well, I've got lips (genetic) and lungs (years of singing), too. It's the fingers that hinder me. Well, that and the fact that I am lazy...and six months pregnant.

johnkerr · Post by **johnkerr** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:03 pm

JessieK wrote:Matt Molloy used to say he was saving his Olwell for when he got too old to play his older, more finicky flute. He said the Olwell was so easy that he was afraid he'd get lazy.

I think what Matt meant by this statement is that Patrick Olwell's flutes are not "hard to fill", as is often said about older flutes. That's part of the genius of Patrick's flutemaking, that he can make a flute that even the rank beginner can get a good sound out of from day one. But of course to play even an Olwell to its full capability requires a great deal of work.

I'm no Matt Molloy, but I've been playing flute for a dozen years or so now. Although technically I didn't start on an Olwell (I had a Casey Burns that I messed around with for a couple of years before I got my Olwell in 1992), for all intents and purposes I did. Which means I never had to overcome the hurdles of learning how to fill an old flute. Consequently, when I pick up a flute that is hard to fill, even after years of playing, I do find it a bit hard to fill at first. When I pick up another Olwell, I don't. I can see how Matt Molloy would think he was getting lazy if he allowed himself the luxury of an Olwell after playing those hard-to-fill flutes so brilliantly for so long!

BTW, even among modern flutes I would characterize some as harder to fill than others. For instance, I find Hammy's flutes a bit harder to fill than Patrick's, likewise Desi Seery's flutes (one of which I recently picked up as my backup in case, God forbid, something should happen to my Olwell) are harder to fill than Patrick's. But that doesn't mean they're not good flutes, once you figure out how to fill them...

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:41 pm

ChrisLaughlin wrote:Loren, I hereby challenge you to a flute duel!
Chris

Well only if we actually get to fence with the flutes

, otherwise it's no contest, I bow to the master (You) - I'm well aware that I'm a weenie on any flute

Loren

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:51 pm

A data point on the "hard to fill" issue.

I'm mostly a whistler who's just starting to get into flute - still haven't upgraded from my Dixon Low D Duo.

Pratton-style flutes may be on the harder-to-fill end of the continuum of "good flutes" - but when I had a chance to try MurphyStout's Hamilton keyless a couple of months ago I was surprised at how much easier it was to fill a good flute.

So beginners with one of the cheap cylindrical flutes should be aware that almost any decent "real" Irish flute will likely be easier, not harder, to get a decent tone from. Still torn between M & E, Seery, or Casey Burns, for when I move up, though - Hamiltons and Olwells are a bit beyond my price range!

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:20 pm

Good points on the "hard-to-fill" issue, Dcrom and John. Another, regarding embouchure and tone, is that livingroom playing is not the same as performance playing. Different skill altogether, and it can determine a lot of new things about a flute, played nicely at home or pushed to the wall.
Gordon

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:42 am

One word from experience: your opinions about any flute will problaby change during your tenure with that flute. Flutes that you think are horrible now will reveal themselves to be pretty good, later on. Flutes that you think are great now may reveal themselves to be flat and uninteresting later on.

For example, a few years later and the M&E (traditional, with split embochure) is once more my favourite Irish flute. I used to think it had problems with the low E, but hey, it doesn't!

Just pick a flute, pick something that has at least a few good recommendations from people you trust, and then learn to play.

I'm sorry to say that

but the more you learn, the more you will realize that the problem is likely to be you, not the flute. I'm dazzled by the number of flutes people buy, especially in the US. I think in the end it's a good thing, because it keeps the flutemakers fed and clothed. But "not by the multitude of thy flutes shall thy music improve", quoth Blackbeer.

g

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:54 am

Yes, Glauber, I agree with you on this. I think that as we grow as players, our tastes change a bit. As for buying a lot of flutes, I also agree that I would be a better flute player if I had only one flute, but it is not my goal to be the best I can be. It is my goal to keep enjoying it in any way I see fit. I love flutes, and (for the next few months, anyway) can think of nothing better to spend money on. I'll get it all back when I sell them later.