OT - Getting to be a Fatso!

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:20 pm

emmline wrote:I'll just add that having watched several epidurals being administered, they scare me more than the pain of labor.
Gee, Jessie, nothing like me trying to make you feel better, huh?

Yeah, it's all scary! I actually have to go through it in a few months. It's something I've thought about all my life and it's finally an inescapable reality. This is one area where the outcome is MUCH better (one would hope) and more important than the "journey."

trisha · Post by **trisha** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:25 am

With a normal pregnancy and a relaxed attitude, the journey isn't that bad, honest. I had all mine at home with midwives...all other mammals seek a quiet familiar place, so I figured I would too! Obviously, if medical reasons dictate otherwise, then hospital is the place to be, and the majority would prefer first babies in hospital too.

Intervention is on the increase here in UK - fear of litigation largely, and those wretched "celebs" who book a C-section like they would a hair appointment...

It's a shame, for birth is such a natural thing. You don't see fear and stress in animals...they just enter another level of consciousness (as do we when in second stage we use language you didn't know you knew!!!!).

Next week I have 20 pedigree ewes due - over half have never had a baby, it's inescapable, but they give birth where they feel relaxed, focus themselves on themselves (as usual!), and it's discomfort with a purpose

.

The "pain" relief thing - depends to a large extent on whether the baby's facing the right way, your degree of relaxation, whether you can stay upright as much as possible..and mobile too, and whether you usually rush to the pharmacy for the tiniest sniffle...ie your attitude to drugs and needles (legal, of course)

.

At the end of the day, the end result is what matters...and you will worry about it daily for the rest of your life :roll: .

Trisha

cj · Post by cj » Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:46 am

Keep your options open on the epidural. Most labors are more than the 4-5 hours that Emmline's lasted (lucky Emmline!), esp. first births.

When balanced with the pain of contractions, the pain of the epidural going in was NOTHING to me. I don't believe that we should deny ourselves the choice for pain relief (I skipped Lamaze class since I failed to see how going hee-hee-hoo-hoo could mitigate that much pain) since we are fortunate enough to have anesthesia. I get novocaine at the dentist's office, and childbirth is a heck of lot more pain (and longer) than a filling. It's every woman's choice, but to me it seems like unnecessary stress to forego it if you're in that much pain. My son suffered no adverse effects from it, and neither did I. I was probably a lot more able to focus and relax when it came time to push him out than I would have been had I let myself be in wracking pain for 14 hours preceding the actual delivery.

I know (and respect the choices of) women who birthed naturally, women who had to have C-sections, and women like me who didn't have the C-section but just had epidurals. All our babies came out fine with no ill effects and are healthy, thriving children. We're lucky to live in a time where we have these options, unlike women throughout most of history.

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:39 am

Although improperly done epidurals can cause chronic back problems, as long as you have a competent doctor, there's nothing to worry about. It doesn't harm the child at all. If I ever have children, I will definitely be asking for one. Even if you're the holistic type, don't knock the modern methods if you need them. It's all fine and dandy to want to do a "natural birth" but keep in mind that until the days of modern medicine, those "natural births" were the biggest killer of young women, period.

Jens_Hoppe · Post by **Jens_Hoppe** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:45 am

TelegramSam wrote:It's all fine and dandy to want to do a "natural birth" but keep in mind that until the days of modern medicine, those "natural births" were the biggest killer of young women, period.

But surely the lack of epidurals had nothing to do with that...?

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:55 am

The lack of c-section did. The lack of epidurals, well the more pain one is in, the more stress one is under. Severe stress in itself can complicate matters, especially if something goes wrong.

cj · Post by cj » Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:56 am

As for the back problems, I had those before childbirth. Also, the epidural needle in your back will be the least of your physical worries when recuperating from the birth. I know of no one who suffered any ill effects from epidurals.

True, Jens, lack of epidurals wasn't the cause, but I think Sam's point was that the lack of options (i.e., C-sections, labor induction, etc.) as well as the lack of birth control which resulted in 14 or so children killed many women in eras past. I think she means that any risks associated with getting an epidural these days pale in comparison to the risks faced by mothers long ago.

aderyn_du · Post by **aderyn_du** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:02 am

TelegramSam wrote: keep in mind that until the days of modern medicine, those "natural births" were the biggest killer of young women, period.

Oh, Sam, really... that is so not true! Deaths did occur in labor and birth, and still do, but many factors contributed to that in days before modern medicine. It wasn't from giving birth naturally! Studies have been done that show that the United States mortality rate has skyrocketed over the last decade or so, with the advent of c-sections and other birth technologies, and that some third world countries have a lower mortality rate than we do for our birthing women!

Don't put too much stock in how technology has improved the mortality rate of birth.

Andrea

Edited to add an interesting article: Technology in Birth: First Do No Harm

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:23 am

Oh man, can I back out now?! It's so scary!!

I don't go to the pharmacy for the tiniest sniffle, but I am not afraid of needles when having blood drawn for tests. When I had just turned 16 I got a VERY high fever out of nowhere (turned out to be the Cocsackie Virus, which is an unexplained high fever that goes away overnight) and at the hospital, they gave me a spinal tap. I know they took out a little spinal fluid, but it was the hole they left that cause me to have unbearable migraines for six weeks after that, and it was my first six weeks of college (yes, I went two years early). This is what concerns me about an epidural, as it is the same risk.

As for natural, I have a good feeling about my body being able to birth a baby the right way...I have the body for childbearing, I think.

I think it will depend on how long my labor is by the time epidural would be given. If it's relatively short, I'll forgo it, but if I am already exhausted from many hours of pain, I'll have it done.

And it will be MY decision.

aderyn_du · Post by **aderyn_du** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:38 am

And that is how it should be Jessie!

I did not mean to scare you at all-- I just really wanted people to know that technology was not the be-all end-all for birth.

There are times when medical intervention is definitely necessary, and life-saving; I just think, at times, the medical community is a little too quick to jump in when they are not necessarily needed. Actually, I had to have a spinal myself with my first birth, as my birth was not progressing at all, and my daughter was born by c-section. That was a necessary thing, but in the end she was okay-- so if that happens with you, I'm sure things will be fine as well.

The ultimate goal is for you and your baby to be healthy and happy, so however you need to do it is just how it should be!! You will be fine-- you have a strong spirit and a great love for your child already. Those two things will serve you both well as you give birth!!

Be well,
Andrea

cj · Post by cj » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:42 am

Yes, it will be your decision, as well it should be.

From what my doc said, it doesn't matter what body type you have. The crucial ratio is that of the baby's head diameter to the birth canal diameter. I am a small woman whose son weighed 9 pounds and come from a long line of narrow-hipped women who pushed out 9+-pounder babies.

Yes, your body will know how to birth the baby. However, if you're faced with some situations (I was full-term and water had broken but dilation wasn't happening, so I took pitocin to induce the labor, for example), and/or more pain, assistance may be in order.

Open discussion with your doctor/midwife/provider about your options, as well as your obviously intelligent mind and how you feel, will all come together to make this birth wonderful.

And, to echo Andrea, it doesn't matter how it ends up, with or without medication, having to have a C-section or not, it will be one of the most awesome things you'll ever do. In the end you'll have a baby you'll love more than anything regardless how she got here.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:43 am

JessieK wrote:Oh man, can I back out now?! It's so scary!!

I don't go to the pharmacy for the tiniest sniffle, but I am not afraid of needles when having blood drawn for tests. When I had just turned 16 I got a VERY high fever out of nowhere (turned out to be the Cocsackie Virus, which is an unexplained high fever that goes away overnight) and at the hospital, they gave me a spinal tap. I know they took out a little spinal fluid, but it was the hole they left that cause me to have unbearable migraines for six weeks after that, and it was my first six weeks of college (yes, I went two years early). This is what concerns me about an epidural, as it is the same risk.

As for natural, I have a good feeling about my body being able to birth a baby the right way...I have the body for childbearing, I think.

I think it will depend on how long my labor is by the time epidural would be given. If it's relatively short, I'll forgo it, but if I am already exhausted from many hours of pain, I'll have it done.

And it will be MY decision.

When you need it, you'll have the strength to do whatever you need to do. It's scary, but somehow or another we all get through it.

One bit of advice my husband has for all the men out there is, be ready to be firm with your wife, if necessary. My hubby tried like anything to coax me into the whirlpool tub in our birthing room, tried to get me to walk, etc., but I was in another space and wasn't having any of it. He's convinced to this day (and probably rightly) that, if he'd been a little more insistent about these things, my birth would have gone easier.

We're so lucky these days that we have all these options available to us. I'm with Sam on this one. You do whatever you and your husband (he's a big part of the birthing process too) feel is necessary, and you'll be just fine.

Redwolf

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:44 am

trisha wrote:With a normal pregnancy and a relaxed attitude, the journey isn't that bad, honest. I had all mine at home with midwives...all other mammals seek a quiet familiar place, so I figured I would too! Obviously, if medical reasons dictate otherwise, then hospital is the place to be, and the majority would prefer first babies in hospital too.

Intervention is on the increase here in UK - fear of litigation largely, and those wretched "celebs" who book a C-section like they would a hair appointment...

It's a shame, for birth is such a natural thing. You don't see fear and stress in animals...they just enter another level of consciousness (as do we when in second stage we use language you didn't know you knew!!!!).

Next week I have 20 pedigree ewes due - over half have never had a baby, it's inescapable, but they give birth where they feel relaxed, focus themselves on themselves (as usual!), and it's discomfort with a purpose .

The "pain" relief thing - depends to a large extent on whether the baby's facing the right way, your degree of relaxation, whether you can stay upright as much as possible..and mobile too, and whether you usually rush to the pharmacy for the tiniest sniffle...ie your attitude to drugs and needles (legal, of course) .

At the end of the day, the end result is what matters...and you will worry about it daily for the rest of your life :roll: .

Trisha

I'll second all this. (Except for the lamb part...I don't have any.)

edited to say: This is so typical though...the gaggle of those of us who've "been there," chattering about experiences good and bad...I guess it's just what we do...but keep in mind that we've had kids, it was uncomfortable but worked out ok, many of us did it again...everybody's born somehow...it's not that big a deal. Take home message: Don't worry about it.

Emily

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:48 am

Statistically (intentional) homebirths are safer than hospital births. Of course you have to take that with a grain of salt because the cases known beforehand to be troublesome are more likely to end up in the hospital. But the upshot (of this and other factors) is in my mind that many of the complicaitons cured by the hospital are caused by the hospital in the first place. In fact, when it comes to birth, I am a confirmed feminist, and don't see why birth should have been taken out of the home and the domain of women and been placed in hospitals (likening it to illness & disease) and in the care of the male-dominated medical profession.

It's not my place to give advice on a subject like this, but I do think that it is invaluable for every pregnant woman to at least speak to a good home-birth midwife.

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:57 am

Bloomfield, it must be the end of the world, because I agree with you on a couple counts. It's funny how the entire female reproductive system has been turned into a disease. Don't even get me started on the medical community's attitude towards menstruation and female hormone cycles...