Making the transition

clarinetnut · Post by **clarinetnut** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:58 pm

Hi all,

I'm mostly a lurker here, but now I have a question. I am a classically trained musician, working on a clarinet performance degree. I picked up the whistle over the summer as a distraction from all the other music stuff I do, and because, well, I just liked it.

But here's my question:

My playing is largely at a standstill right now. Because I spend 3-4 (or more) hours a day practicing clarinet (plus some oboe, to fulfill a second instrument requirement), I have a hard time coming home and spending a lot more time practicing the whistle. In addition, my physical technique is far beyond my mental technique (I know all the fingerings and how to read music, but I sound like a classical musician playing the pennywhistle...something I vowed to overcome when I started with all this). In other words, I can play everything in the book, but it sounds dumb. So, does anyone have suggestions for how I can get past this?

Thanks bunches!!

Robyn

P.S. I have a couple of celtic cds, but being a poor college student, haven't been able to build up my library. Those clarinet reeds are too darned expensive.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:17 pm

Well, I would start, if you don't already, with doing a lot of LISTENING to Irish music. That way you'll be training your ear (in a very pleasant way), and will stand you in good stead, even when you don't have time to practice the whistle.

I also wouldn't sit down and practice for hours at a time (well, actually, sometimes I do, but I'm a bit of a freak that way and, besides, I don't have any other instruments to worry about). Keep the whistle handy and play a bit here and there. Keep one in the car for those long waits in the drive thru line. Keep one by the computer for those way too long page loads. Keep one in the kitchen so you can tootle away while waiting for the water to boil. Don't think of it in the same way you would a classical instrument ("I need to practice X hours a day if I want to get better")...instead, think of it as a little companion that you can carry with you and play on when you just want to relax and make music. That's not saying that you won't eventually want to put a bit of concentrated practice in on a particular tune or ornament, but in general, just play with it, have an idea of what you're aiming at, and see how you go on.

Redwolf

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:23 pm

Go to Brother Steve's

http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/

Then click on "Meditations" (don't worry lotus position not required), and then on "classically trained?" But it sounds like you have the right mindset already.

Next, listening is everything. On Brother Steve's find the "Transcriptions" that should satisfy your classical background because you can read a long and it'll keep you busy. Also, in your position I'd vow never to learn anything Irish from sheetmusic.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:35 pm

I think all of the above advice is excellent.

But I wouldn't attempt to do too many things at once--finish your degree before you attempt anything that turns your musical world upside-down!

--James

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:35 pm

If you're a music student, I would presume that your college library is pretty well-stocked with CD's. Go there and listen to some of the artists listed in the good Irish music thread that was still on the front page last I looked. You might also search the flute board for "Flute Geezers," which is a page with a couple of dozen recordings of old flute players. Also, don't think that you necessarily need to be listening to a lot of whistle music. There's a lot more fiddle music out there, and you can learn as much or more about the music itself from fiddlers, as well as flute, box, and whatever else players.

cyberspiff · Post by **cyberspiff** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:41 pm

I was in a similar position, but with a twist. Classically trained at Julliard, performance degree, etc. The difference is I haven't played an instrument in almost 20 years prior to the whistle, but the training stuck around.

What I found of most value is to do the following:

1. Listen to Irish Traditional Music, not just whistle players though. Pipes, whistle, bodhran, singers, etc. This gives you a feel for the music.

2. Go out and hear live musicians. There is nothing like the energy you feel from a live performance.

3. The hardest but most valuable step for me was to not use sheet music. Totally contrary to training, but there is a groove to ITM that you feel by playing it by ear. If I do look at music it is only to work out a specific part that I can't pick up by ear.

4. Go sit-in at sessions if available near you. You'll get the feel of the different styles of jigs, reels, hornpipes, etc by hearing and playing it with others. At our sessions I sit next to a 85-year old priest from Ireland who has played the music all his life. For all my training he gets more emotion out of a few notes that leaves me in the dust. Every song is something learned. If sessions aren't available play along with CD's (use the amazing slow downer, it's a big help).

5. Drink beer. Not just any beer, but dark, rich Irish beer. In large quantities preferably. It won't help with the music, but after a few pints you won't care

Now go forth and jam!

spittin_in_the_wind · Post by **spittin_in_the_wind** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:47 pm

I agree with bloomfield's recommendation of BroSteve's site; here are MP3s to listen to:
http://www.rogermillington.com/tunetoc/index.html

Also check out the concerts at the Kennedy Center:
http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/ ... tml#search

type "Irish" into the search function and it will pull up a boatload.

Riley School of Music used to have MP3s posted here to learn by ear, although they haven't been available for a while; hopefully someday:
http://members.nuvox.net/~on.rsim/music.htm

And check out the virtual session:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/r2music/folk/sessions/

And if you want to get more serious, try this. I hear it's good:
http://www.scoiltrad.com./index.asp

I'm basically in the same boat as you, but having played a lot of jazz as well. I think I have a different kind of swing--emphasizing the downbeat has been quite an exercise in unlearning! I'll be reading this topic with interest to see if anyone has anything insightful to add.

Robin

illuminatus99 · Post by **illuminatus99** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:57 pm

I was also classically trained, almost ended up playing french horn with the pros before I decided to give it all up for irish music. the style is much more loose that what you're used to and chances are that i'll sound silly if you just play the way it's written. there's a few people who write in all the ornamentation and everything but in most cases they don't.

your best bet is to just listen to the music, it'll help you more than probably anything else.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:01 pm

Hey...I just noticed you're from Spokane! That's where I grew up and went to college. Where are you doing your performance degree...not Whitworth by any chance, is it?

Redwolf

clarinetnut · Post by **clarinetnut** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:05 pm

Hey everybody, thanks for the wonderful advice. I'm willing to hear more if you have it. I'll certainly be listening to more music. Thanks for the links!

Redwolf-I graduated from North Central High School, class of 2001. I'm now a junior at Washington State University. Go Cougs.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:22 pm

Just to say that lots of classically trained
people do make the shift and become
ITM musicians, fine ones, too.
Rather envy you the chops. Go for it!

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:07 pm

Another part of Brother Steve's page at http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/ to look at is the Jigs link--the "Jigs, trickier than you might think" part.

I haven't had the misfortune of classical training

but I've played Bluegrass guitar and mandolin for a long time, and the groove is a bit different from ITM, due to a strong blues/swing influence. I've always found jigs particularly difficult, because they don't fit well with the down-up-down-up picking patterns that are one of the core techniques of BG guitar.

On reading Bro. Steve's explanation of the *real* rhythm of jigs, just a couple of days ago, I tried applying it to "Swallowtail Jig" on my guitar, and for the first time I felt comfortable with a down-up-down--down-up-down picking pattern, it sounded much better, and it was easier to play. That's the first really new thing I've learned on the guitar in quite a few years. It's a tiny, tiny thing that made a world of difference.

Actually, Bro. Steve writes quite a bit about groove, so I'd work through the whole site.

Get my first whistle tomorrow. Then we'll see...

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:57 pm

I'm a convert too-- came to Trad music via many years of avid recorder playing, which I am still very much involved in.
Forget what you think all of those ornament symbols mean!! What you would play as a grace note or appagiatura is a cut or tap and is played very differently. Ditto for some other symbols. This can be a tough habit to break.
I'm always pushing people to get Bill Ochs' book/CD combo called The Clarke Tinwhistle, which is how I learned to play in a more Irish style. You'll zip through the initial parts in no time, since Bill teaches basic music reading etc. However, when you get to the part on ornamentation, you will find a lot of helpful stuff. You can read the written examples, and hear how they are meant to be played-- first slowly, then up to tempo. Nice little repetoire of tunes too. LE McCullough's book is excellent and if you REALLY wanna get into it, Grey Larsen's new encyclopedic whistle/flute book is unreal.

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:59 pm

cyberspiff wrote: 5. Drink beer. Not just any beer, but dark, rich Irish beer. In large quantities preferably. It won't help with the music, but after a few pints you won't care

Damn, I missed that one. It's definitely true (I'm not big on stout these days, though, drank mostly Smithwick's in Ireland), and Robyn being at a university likely has access to, uhmm, rivers of the stuff.

Spittin wrote:

Also check out the concerts at the Kennedy Center:
http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/ ... tml#search

There's a wonderful solo show by Kevin Burke on the fiddle at the Kennedy Center site.

Jim Stone wrote:

Just to say that lots of classically trained
people do make the shift and become
ITM musicians, fine ones, too.

Win Horan of Solas comes immediately to mind. Says she's still getting the hang of it, but I certainly couldn't tell.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:14 pm

clarinetnut wrote:Hey everybody, thanks for the wonderful advice. I'm willing to hear more if you have it. I'll certainly be listening to more music. Thanks for the links!

Redwolf-I graduated from North Central High School, class of 2001. I'm now a junior at Washington State University. Go Cougs.

Cool. My dad was an NC grad. I graduated from the now-defunct Marycliff High School in 1979 and got my degree from Whitworth College, but my best bud went to Wazoo. She gave me Cougar cheese every year for Christmas

Redwolf