jigs v. pipes

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:28 pm

I love hornpipes, but don't seem to be terribly inspired by any jigs I've played. Why is that? Is it cultural? Anyone else have a decided preference for a particular form?
(Assuming this thread sinks as hastily as most other subjects I weigh in on, I will change my screen name to Torpedo.)

illuminatus99 · Post by **illuminatus99** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:31 pm

I tend to find hornpipes annoying and like jigs mostly with reels close behind. I also tend toward tunes that are in minor keys. I'm not sure what makes people like certain types of tunes though.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:44 pm

illuminatus99 wrote:I tend to find hornpipes annoying and like jigs mostly with reels close behind. I also tend toward tunes that are in minor keys. I'm not sure what makes people like certain types of tunes though.

I think it's a pretty personal thing. I quoted Illuminatus99 as a near-kindred spirit, although my disinterest toward hornpipes has lately changed what with having come across quite a few that I really like to play on flute.

One instrument that I really appreciate hearing hornpipes on is the uilleann pipes. It's as if they're made for each other, to my ears, and good piping will give a hornpipe a lot of character and substance.

janice · Post by **janice** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:47 pm

It's true, Nano...I looovveee playing hornpipes on the pipes, as they really lend themselves to nice tight closed bippity bippity playing on pipes.
But I only play them on the whistle at sessions and at ceilis, rarely by myself at home. Quite a personal thing.

As to favourite keys....I have a theory regarding personality and keys. A very good Scottish fiddling friend of mine is the *epitome* of Scottish dourness...and all of his favorite tunes are in a minor (or d minor...but he's a fiddler, so mostly a!).

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:23 pm

Minor keys? Ohhh yeah. Gimme mist and shadows. Some day I may learn to really like *happy* tunes, too.

Gmaj reels? I can only think of a handful that truly send me. Give me time and maturity, I suppose.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:32 pm

I think hornpipes sound nice when played well on u. pipes due to the staccatto (sp?) style pipes can afford the tune. It really helps to pop out the phrasing. though the same can be said for jig and reels as well. It has an awful lot to do with the players skill and style though. I've been piping for two years now and I'm still working on getting that nice tight stuttered sound out of my chanter on a consistant basis. I can whistle it reasonably well, but it is a different beast altogether on the pipe chanter.

B~

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:42 am

Jigs have more swing, so more players here "come in" at jig level and then try out the others.
Listen to jigs played slowly rather than by the celtic supergroups or local sessions and you'll get a greater feel for the swing.
Mick O'Brien and Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh's Kitty Lie Over CD has some of what you should listen to..... www.kittylieover.com

I think there's so much of the music is in knowing it...I can think of players, whose playing I thought "Naa, too fancy" or "Too fast" or "Wrong instrument", "too many reels" or whatever....but in going back to listen at another time, I've taken something from the music that I hadn't heard before.
It was there all the time but I hadn't heard it.
It's not so much a cultural thing.
It's a good idea to go with what you like....but always keep looking at the other stuff......it might grow on you!!

Boyd

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:37 am

I like them all and it comes from dancing. Here in Windsor we have a great Set Dance teacher, who makes sure that we dance the right step to the tune and the dance being danced. This comes across in my playing either it be a hornpipe, jig, reel, polka. I play as I dance and I love both.

MarkB

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:02 am

Ditto, ditto, ditto Boyd. And to paraphrase people from more than a few varying disciplines, I think it's all in the swing. Which, in our universe, is often up to the musician to make happen. IMO, most tunes that survive today are rarely inherently boring; but our ways of playing them can be.

Mongoose of Righteousness · Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:16 pm

There are so many weak sounding jigs out there. I think its because they are easy to write. But a good one can be great. Calliope House, I Have A House With A Chimney On Top Of It, Kesh, etc. All great little pieces.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:22 pm

Morrison's Jig, too.

mat · Post by **mat** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:38 pm

Mongoose of Righteousness wrote:There are so many weak sounding jigs out there. I think its because they are easy to write.

...or perhaps you just aint playing them right???

There's many a tune I have discarded in the past 'cos they wern't no good, but a few years down the line it's astounding how much they've improved!

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 9:05 pm

I love, love , love, jigs and most of all slip jigs. Reels come in behind them.
Hornpipes ........I know only one.

Slow airs are in a catagory all their own and they are great.

Baglady · Post by **Baglady** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 11:28 am

MarkB wrote:I like them all and it comes from dancing. Here in Windsor we have a great Set Dance teacher, who makes sure that we dance the right step to the tune and the dance being danced. This comes across in my playing either it be a hornpipe, jig, reel, polka. I play as I dance and I love both.

MarkB

People say, and I have found it to be true, that there are two ways to become familiar with the appropriate phrasing and tempo for a tune and those are the language and the dance.

On the hornpipe when you try to play along with a dancer 'trying' to tap out all of the steps to a HP in time to the music you get a very clear picture of how they 'should' be played. Your average session plays them WAY too fast and so they bacome jig like. This makes it hard for the average joe to hear the difference. And so the question of what is the difference?

I have heard Martin Hayes quoted as saying that you tend to fiddle as you speak. I think he ment that the different regional styles are closely tied to how they spoke or sang.

So being familiar with the whole culture will make you better able to present your piece of it. I think that this is what people are looking for when they say "Do you have to be Irish to play ITM?" You don't have to be Irish to play good ITM but you do have to be willing to become sensitive to what makes it IRISH trad music.

And back to the thread:
As far as likes and dislikes---I haven't gotten my head around set dances. Maybe if I could see them danced I could get it. If I weren't out pub crawling with the pipe band every St Pat's I could see Tom Dahill play for set dancers.

Oh well. Must hold up my piece of the culture.

BL

energy · Post by **energy** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 11:35 am

I think it's mostly a matter of how well you can play any particuliar tune type. I used to prefer reels, but now that my jig playing has gotten better I have no preference.

For an instance of a tune I thought I hated, but discovered wasn't so bad, Flowers of Edinburgh. Then I heard Micheal O Rhaggahalghreirghhkgh play it on his CD The Nervous Man(which anyone who is interested in Irish music must buy. Lovely rendition. He phrases it just right to bring out the bittersweet elements.

Boyd, why do you think jigs have more swing? ?I've always thought of it as the other way around.