James Galway's whistle in Return of the King

[Lorenzo]

The fiddler in my band has been first chair and concert master in symphonies for years, but there is something in this so-called boring, repetitive ITM that also speaks deeply to her...so deeply in fact, that even the simple beauty of a jig or reel can bring a salty tear to her eye, or catch her as if in a spider's web.

In fact, she can get all wrapped up, and stung badly, just exploring the mind of the composer as the tune is being played and all he/she must have gone through to write such a lovely tune. She doesn't ever seem dissuaded by a particular performer's interpretation and rendition of the tune, nor by the light-hearted and drunken look on his face, but rather, she's flung headlong into the tune itself and knocked about senselessly while exploring the juxtapositions of wailing chords and melody lines and how they can all somehow weave and wave themselves into such a beautiful web that captures the lucky ones indeed. It's all in the head, Fred.

What's fascinating is to observe the different tastes people have, and not only tastes, but a seemingly innate ability to understand one or the other, or sometimes both, with any degree of depth and heartfelt appreciation. For myself, I feel equally attracted to and mentally aroused by either Turkish Rondo, or the Wise Maid, and if bored at all...I would tend to doze off with the former, and end up in bed with the latter.

[janice]

And that is why you still remain and continue to be da man, Lorenzo!

[Brian Lee]

Perhaps I have listened to lots of CDs by Lunasa (not very traditional themselves), Boys of the Lough (I'm a huge fan of Cathal McConnell btw), Bothy Band, Planxty, a lot of irish flute players from Paddy Carty to Harry Bradley, some fiddlers, some duets or trios etc ...
And what do they play? reels, jigs, hornpipes, polkas ... Isn't that considered to be dance music?

Perhaps you have heard these bands/musicians before, which again forces me to wonder: "If the music is so poorly played/executed/lacking in style/whatever, why do you continue to listen to it or bother to spend time on boards such as C&F? Not trying to be rude, just ask a serious question as it just doesn't seem to add up. Again - only curious here.

And while the tunes can be played for celilis, or other dances, almost all the music you'll hear recorded today isn't played in or for that setting. Much of what I often hear reffered to as beautiful classical music was also played for dances in its day.

I never said Lúnasa was traditional in the sense of older recordings at all. But they ARE what many of the newer players are listening to now - and in an easily understandable way are creating a newer version of the old tradition. It is a living tradition after all.

It's not about rewriting old works (what a strange idea!). It's about writing new music in a new style.

Please see above.

So you can't hear any difference between Josquin Desprez and Igor Stravinsky? In that case, let's stop the discussion at this point.

I don't listen to enough classical music to be able to tell you the differences to these two composers. But I can hear a definite difference between music played from a sheet and music played from someones heart. Lorenzo put it much more eloquently than I.

I'll appologize now if I've rumpled any feathers. Just hate to see Irish music so often and so completely written off as 'bog music' or the like when it had such a great influence in so many other forms of music.

[lixnaw]

if your want to play music as a kid or if your parents want you to, your bound to study sheet music for one year,
without any instruments. that's the way things are on the continent.
after one year you can choose an instrument and learn to play classical music, you have to play everything exactly as on the sheets. there's no other option. that's the way things are on the continent.

i can't play sheet music or ABC, i learn and play by ear. but i think sheet music is good for many of us, and i don't think it 'll do any harm if everyone learnt their first thirty tunes this way.
there's also many people that like classical music, they have every chance here to become a good musician, that's good too. some become good composers like james galway!

but kids who don't like classical music and sheet music , but like something different, are told it's the only way to learn, and the best way.
no wonder a lot of them are repelled. others give up and think they aren't good enough to play classical music and loose all hope and precious years. luckely out of the latter, there's some who don't give up and choose the style they like, but by then, they're not kids anymore.

one reason they do this is, it's easy to teach.
the other reason is, they believe only smart people like classical music. so they think, if they teach their kids this music, they'll be smart too. that's the way things are, on the continent.

let's hope for a brighter future

[GaryKelly]

Dunno what all the fuss is about.

I'd have played the whistle for ROTK for free. Not a bean. Not even my name in the credits.

But it would've sounded crap.




Listening to good musicians inspires me to try to play better, no matter who they are.

Happy New Year to you all

[Dana]

I saw the movie last night. Re: Galway's whistle: Sounded fine to me, but with the typical Galway vibrato. For those of you that may not have heard him playing classical flute, he actually toned the vibrato down for the soundtrack, believe it or not.
I'll join with Gary in wishing everyone a happy new year!

Dana

[John-N]

Lyrics to Pippin's Song:

http://www.tolkien-movies.com/forum/forum.php?id=3655

-John

[cowtime]

Pippin's song was the only music that I heard and actually admired. The rest was not noteworthy to me.

[boyd]

I've seen him play a blackwood D whistle on telly...it was one of the high end whistles...can't remember which one, but I recall noting that the maker had his wares mentioned in the High End section of this web site.

Boyd

[Cathy Wilde]

I got to play one of those Abell whistles (I assume like the one Galway played) last summer. Lovely to look at, pleasant to play. High-end is right; about $325 I think? Not worth the $$$ for my ham-fisted use let alone the pain of wood care to me, but very pretty. Nice sound, and a good feature is that they are thicker, which makes for easier grip (more like Susato diameter) than, say, a Burke....

(But personally, I still like my Burke better.)

Also, I might have missed something anent the classical/trad discussion (fascinating, BTW!), but in case this was overlooked ..... as I recall there are boatloads of Sarabandes, Gavottes, Minuets, Valses, etc., etc., etc. in the concertos and symphonies and other classical stuff I played for lo those many years ..... and those would be dance tunes, would they not? -- many of them traditional tunes (or motifs/phrases/aspects of tunes) of a certain region picked up by a composer and rearranged for orchestra?

Love,

A Classical Refurb Job Who Well Knows the Pain of Making a Roll Sound Like a Roll and NOT like an Appogiatura.

P.S. And even though I know it's WRONG, 99% of the time I like classical vibrato better than the finger-waggling thing. (But I shall continue to waggle like a good girl.) (Sorry, Sir James. The vibrato tips me off to you every time.)

[peeplj]

Classical music is indeed full of dance tunes.

And traditional music is not limited to dance tunes. Some of the tunes are "listening" pieces, some are airs, and some, particularly O'Carolan's work, blur the lines between classical and traditional (or "art" and "folk") musics.

There are many good reaons for musicians of both flavours to respect the other.

--James

[Dana]

Definitely... We have so much in common! In fact, many of us are blends of several traditions.

And Cathy, I also prefer classical vibrato to "finger waggling" most of the time, even though it's wrong. (Forgive me, y'all).

Dana

[Cathy Wilde]

Amen to that, and aren't we blessed we have all these things to listen to .... and all this history of so many people with such brilliant ideas and ears to create them?

(Not to mention such a wonderful forum in which to debate their relative merits?)

[StevieJ]

Wow! I hadn't read this thread until now, since neither whistles in LOTR nor Sir James playing whistles are of great interest to me, and as a result I had missed a truly wonderful storm in a teacup!

Just a quick comment to follow up the points that Janice made about cultural assumptions regarding music. Many years ago, knowing that things Indian fascinated me, someone gave me a copy of a dusty old book to read. It was "A Verdict on India" by the English writer Beverley Nichols (a man btw), written in 1946.

In this book our learned scribe concluded that the Indians weren't ready for (or fit for) independence from Britain. I can't remember any of his arguments except one which stuck in my craw at the time and has stuck in my mind ever since.

He compared his impressions of a concert of Indian "classical" music with his knowledge of western classical music. Basically he compared the highly developed structure and harmonic sophistication of Beethoven and others with what he perceived as the anarchic, random meanderings of the Indian musicians. (!!!!!!!) This, to him, was proof positive of the inferiority of the Indian mind.

Come to think of it, there's an echo of this in Dana's plea for interesting and creative Irish trad...

To open your mind to the possibilities of a musical tradition or any art form, you have to be prepared to like it, take it on its own terms, and take the time to understand it. If you merely judge it from the standpoint of what you know, you're not only closing your mind to its merits, but potentially missing out on a great deal of joy and wonder. It was Nichols' great loss that he couldn't understand the skill of the Indian musicians and the profound sophistication of their musical system.

[janice]

Amen, StevieJ!