[article] Traditional songs out of tune with today's kids

mcfeeley · Post by **mcfeeley** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 1:02 pm

This was an article in today's Chicago Tribune: the url is at http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/ ... .intercept but you have to logon to read the story.

According to the author, Marilyn Ward, a lot of kids are more familiar with the top 40 than with songs like Old MacDonald. Quoting 7 year old Shawna Bramlett, age 7, "I listen to nothing but the top 40. Eninem really speaks to me. Old music is for old people."

Ward did a survey last spring, looking at the use of traditional children's songs in public school curriculum. Some of the replies from music teachers were "My school is low socio-economic, so I teach only pop music." "Our curriculum is multi-cultural. We do not teach songs of the American culture." "These songs aren't in my textbooks, so I don't teach them." Teachers also thought that about 5% to 15% of their students could sing from memory songs such as "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star," "Home on the Range," or "The Farmer in the Dell."

Although it's certainly a good thing to incorporate children's songs from other cultures, Ward raises a note of concern over the encroachment of popular culture into what young children are being raised on. Ward quotes Diane Kresh, director of Public Service Collections in the Library of Congress:

Teaching traditional songs in school allows children, at an early
age, to discover and explore who we are as a nation, our roots
and development. Traditional songs reflect who we are and
where we came from, the cultures that influenced us, our
feelings about what it means to be an American, the small
details of everyday life and customs, our industries and
agricultural heritage, the romance of the West, and the
pioneering spirit that moved us to cross mountains in covered
wagons to build new lives and communities.

According to Ward, "Without taking deliberate steps to preserve them (i.e., traditional songs), educators and musicologists believe, it won't be long before these kinds of musical and cultural ties to the past disappear." Quoting John Feierabend, chair of the music education division of the Hartt School of the University of Hartford in Connecticut, "As a country becomes more commercially centered, it loses some of its respect of its heritage. Some Europeans refer to our culture as the 'Coca-Cola' culture: All things are commercialized."

As I read this article, I thought of how easy it would be to introduce the tin whistle to music education in primary schools, and how so many of the available tutorials have a number of children's songs that are easy to learn and play. The Generation G whistle would work well -- inexpensive and just the right size for small hands. Bill Och's tutorial would be ideal for U.S.A. schools since it incorporates a number of American traditional songs. The Mel Bay tutorial also has a number of easy songs familiar to this country.

Last year I talked with our daughter's kindergarten teacher about this idea, using the tin whistle in early children's music education. She was very interested, wanted to know more about the Ochs tutorial, and all the kids wanted to try the Generation G whistle I had with me. I think if I really want to push this idea, I should show the Tribune article to the school principle and then talk about the whistle. Think I'll do this once school break is over . . .

Any parents on this list who like this idea? Let's start a whistle revolution!

-- Dan M.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:31 pm

I like the idea.

Unfortunately, "political correctness" is the culprit behind much of the disappearance of traditional music from the classroom. When I was teaching music at my daughter's school last year, my co-teacher and I went through some of the school songbooks from our generation (the early '70s in my case and the mid-'60s in her case) and realized that we wouldn't be ALLOWED to teach much from those texts, lest one person or another take offense. It was very disheartening. FWIW, however, the kids got a real kick out of Irish music when I played it for them, so I like the whistle idea a lot.

Redwolf

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:51 pm

Well I'm afraid that you can't really rely on public schools to teach a child much of anything beyond reading, writing, and arithmetic (and even then, I wouldn't take it on faith), so if mom and pop don't want the granola crew to brainwash their child, it's up to them to take care of the culture/morals part...

Also, who the hell lets a 7 year old listen to eminem?!? Oh, my goodness! What in the world???

rebl_rn · Post by **rebl_rn** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 7:42 pm

I read this article this morning in the Trib, and it greatly saddened me. However, I really don't think it's the schools to blame - only partly at the most. I was lucky to have pretty good music programs in the schools I went to, but I still learned more traditional songs at my mother's knee than in school. (And I remember the ones I learned from my mom more too). Kids spend a lot more time at home than in school. But, when all the parents are listening to is Eminem, that's what the kids learn.

The other thing that scared and saddened me in that article was the responses of the teachers when asked why they don't teach more traditional songs. I greatly admire and respect teachers for what they do (I know I couldn't do it), but when you hear answers like those, I fear for what at least some kids are learning (or more specifically NOT learning).

Beth

jonharl · Post by **jonharl** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 7:51 pm

My wife teaches third grade. She has got a better handle on this subject than me. What I understand is here in California the push is always on the state testing and what the state pushes for curiculum. The state has the money. The better the test scores the more funding the district gets. If the scores are not up to par then the district/school loses funding. My wife is required to teach certain reading and writing scripts called Open Court. The district selects specific curiculum in the core subjects and dictates the hours taught in that subject and how it's taught. Subjects like music, sports, science and others are an after thought. Education must be handled at home. Culture begins at home. School is never a substitute for bringing to our children our values and experience. WE can't be too busy not to take care of our own.

Just my opinion, do all you can. It's not a hopeless cause.
Jon

DADGAD · Post by **DADGAD** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 9:05 pm

I enjoyed reading all the responses to the original post except Telegraph Sam's. I don't know where he went to school, but to extrapolate from a sampling of one school (his own?) to a cavalier dismissal of the effectiveness of the entire American education system is a cheap shot at best. I happen to be a music teacher in Massachusetts. In middle school we teach piano/ keyboarding skills, Jazz and the Harlem Renaissance, percussion, music research and tin whistle among other things. It has been a lot of fun. However, it's getting harder and harder to provide this kind of instruction because of the increasing demands of the state test (MCAS). The kids in our school have always done well on standardized tests and yet we are subject to the same state test as underperforming school systems. The results are that schools are now teaching to the test and eliminating many of the "frills" that Sam seems to think are incompatible with "readin' and writin'." Great idea: let’s get rid of all the stuff that makes school fun so we can concentrate exclusively on the basics. That'll teach those granola-heads to toe the line!

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:34 pm

1. If you're going to insult me, at least get my bloody name right.

2. If you're going to insult me, at least make a half-assed attempt at understanding my basic argument. My complaint was that the granola-heads were getting rid of the "frills" or otherwise making the "frills" so political that the kids are robbed of their own cultural identity, not that I condoned getting rid of them. Also, my opinion is not simply based on one school. I've discussed this exact issue with numerous people from varied backgrounds. Many agree wholeheartedly that the public schooling in this country leaves much to be desired.

3. The school I went to had a music program, and an excellent band director. I'm merely saying that it's not really the school's responsibility, and that parents should raise their own damn children instead of expecting the teachers, the radio, the television, and everyone else to. If you don't see why I get upset, just think back to the whole debacle following the Columbine shootings. Everyone was so quick to pass the buck onto music and video games, oh no, it COULDN'T have possibly been the fault of the parents or community or, *gasp* the two boys themselves.

aderyn_du · Post by **aderyn_du** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:11 am

jonharl wrote:The district selects specific curiculum in the core subjects and dictates the hours taught in that subject and how it's taught. Subjects like music, sports, science and others are an after thought. Education must be handled at home. Culture begins at home. School is never a substitute for bringing to our children our values and experience. WE can't be too busy not to take care of our own.

Exactly why I am homeschooling...I'm happy to say that my kids will not be like those in the story who do not know traditional songs.

Best,
Andrea

susnfx · Post by **susnfx** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:28 am

No seven-year-old said the sentences "I listen to nothing but the top 40," or "Eminem really speaks to me."

FireFighterLT · Post by **FireFighterLT** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:37 am

What I understand is here in California the push is always on the state testing and what the state pushes for curiculum. The state has the money.

Thats correct here also and it's sad. The first half of the school year is spent studying for the tests so the schools rank higher and thus receive more money.

lixnaw · Post by **lixnaw** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:54 am

music in school should be fun and relaxing. but if the kids really want to learn to play, i don't think most schoolteachers are qualified.
i believe it would be best to have several musicians to choose from, each teaching their own style of music. like one teacher only teaches top 40 songs, the other only classical music. after a year, you should be able to choose if they still want sheet music or not. this will result into a lot of different classes, but it could be done. famous musicians are earning a lot of money, so besides their income taxes, they should be forced to teach the kids

mcfeeley · Post by **mcfeeley** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:08 pm

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how traditional music is taught in Ireland? There are the local musicians, gatherings at the pub and so on, but are there formal educational curriculums in the public schools?

-- Dan M.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:26 pm

Tin whsitle is part of the music curriculum in the National School. It depends a bit on the teachers from school to school how well and intensive music is taught. A lot of traditional musicians are in the teaching profession and they in a lot cases give a wonderful musical education. Wellknow is the work of Frank Custy who passed on a lot of music in his national school and started an immense number of wellknown musicans off [concertinaplayer Yvonne Griffin is now teaching in his school so that work continues], in East Clare fiddle player Maeve Donnelly does an awful lot of work within her school and there are loads of similar examples of teachers passing on music within the NS system.
Some examples of music in schools are at the link www.ictclare.com

Other than that there's private tuition, here in Miltown Malbay Brid Donohue teaches the whistle [she organises classes privately] and turns out lovely musicians. I was at the christmas concert of her pupils a few weeks ago and she had 150 players on stage [mostly local children and this is a town of about 1000 people]from the age group between 5 and 17, wonderful players all. A young girl in her teens teaches the concertina to at least twenty kids from the locality, another five or so including my own son travel to get lessons from Noel Hill, I have several young pipers coming to me, young fiddleplayers are being taught.

A lot of parents enrol their kids for classes during summerschools, during fleadhs and festivals etc. Music is passed on within families, among neighbours, there's an awful lot of activity.

Another local initiative here is the Ceol na nOg, the young people's music, a session again organised by Brid Donoghue, for her whsitle students, their friends and who ever wants to come [in the agegroup from 5-18]. They play, dance a few sets and every time there's a 'mystery guest'. An estblished musician who talks about his or her music, sings songs or plays some tunes and then plays with the group. It's an immensely popular feature of the session and it is a great opportunity for the young ones to meet older musicians and play and talk with them. Eamonn Cotter, Paddy Canny, Paul Dooley, Dympna O Sullivan, Jackie Daly and many others have participated in this.

[edited several times to fix the inevitable typos]

MurphyStout · Post by **MurphyStout** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:05 pm

The American society sucks... what can I say. My generation and the generations younger than me are all MADE, ENGINEERED and CONDITIONED to be stupid. They are not suppost to, and do not think for themselves. They do what the tv tells them to. It's quite frightening really. But I wonder who wants a few generations of happy CONSUMERS who cannot think for themselves? I wonder....

Blame it on the baby boomers.

TonyHiggins · Post by **TonyHiggins** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 3:16 pm

The American society sucks...

Dang, Jack. I see your point. Big money interests have a lot to do with all that. I'm always amazed when I hear how a marketing campaign by Nike or Pepsi gets a celebrity to do some endorsements/commercials, etc and market share goes up. It's fascinating to me how that works and how much people are like sheep in so many ways. Product placement in movies and tv...etc...it works. I won't go into politics, here. That's the really scary part.

At the same time, there are pockets of people doing all kinds of things under the radar. Look at the Chiff gathering we had in Nov. My neighbor, Nirman, heard from someone at the hairdresser's about a group of people who gather at someone's house for basically, a Turkish music session. Now, she's in it. She also has McCullough's session book and is learning Irish tunes on her mandolin.

As far as raising kids goes, it's truly up to the parents. I'm not sure what to say about the school's responsibility. I heard tell of a grade school teacher who advised a parent about a disruptive child. The parent's response was 'he's your problem when he's at school. Don't want to hear about it.' Now, what do you do? Then, having worked with 'severely emotionally disturbed' kids (a legal term), I realize how many kids are walking around just waiting for a prison term to come along and they don't have a large amount of control over the situation. Yeah, the human race is no joke. Not for wimps. Ultimately, you have to ask yourself what responsibility you have for society and what can you do to improve it.
Tony