I ordered one of these whistles so my question is kind of moot. But, has anybody played one of these whistles? How'd you like it? I know the reviews of the Shaws have been favorable, but I couldn't find a review of the Gen D.
Jon
Jerry Tweaked Generation D ?
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Jerry Freeman
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Hi, Jon.
Please stay in touch with me on this one.
Every tweaked Generation I've sent out, I've felt was an excellent whistle. However, there is some variation as I've continued to discover more of the nuances of these whistles and gain more ability to dial in various aspects of the voicing.
Some are a little huskier, some are a little purer/sweeter. I've gotten feedback from people who preferred one or the other variation and I've come to the conclusion that there isn't one accepted "ideal" Generation sound.
Also, I've set these up for a little more back pressure than the factory run Gens. Most people prefer this, which is why I've done them that way, but once in awhile, someone tells me they HATE back pressure, and they want a whistle that's even freer blowing than the factory Generations.
So this project has been interesting. It seems, there's a lot of lore stored up in Generation whistles, so I'm finding that handling them, I run into different expectations from different people, some of which could not coexist in a single whistle.
Best wishes,
Jerry
P.S. I wrote this intending to post it as a PM, but it occurred to me that there's some information here that might be of interest to other members of the board, so I went ahead and put it in this thread.
Please stay in touch with me on this one.
Every tweaked Generation I've sent out, I've felt was an excellent whistle. However, there is some variation as I've continued to discover more of the nuances of these whistles and gain more ability to dial in various aspects of the voicing.
Some are a little huskier, some are a little purer/sweeter. I've gotten feedback from people who preferred one or the other variation and I've come to the conclusion that there isn't one accepted "ideal" Generation sound.
Also, I've set these up for a little more back pressure than the factory run Gens. Most people prefer this, which is why I've done them that way, but once in awhile, someone tells me they HATE back pressure, and they want a whistle that's even freer blowing than the factory Generations.
So this project has been interesting. It seems, there's a lot of lore stored up in Generation whistles, so I'm finding that handling them, I run into different expectations from different people, some of which could not coexist in a single whistle.
Best wishes,
Jerry
P.S. I wrote this intending to post it as a PM, but it occurred to me that there's some information here that might be of interest to other members of the board, so I went ahead and put it in this thread.
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StevieJ
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I've played one - two, in fact, since the first one Jerry sent was slightly damaged in the mail and a replacement arrived today. Both Ds.
I wasn't going to write anything about them just yet because Jerry and I have been having quite an exchange of messages and he's been experimenting in response to my feedback - at least that's what I gather because he tells me a third one is now in the mail!
My initial impressions are very favourable. Unfortunately I don't have an untouched Generation D in the house, but I can compare them with a Cillian O Briain whistle (with a modified Generation head) and several Gens I've modified myself, including a couple I'm very happy with that I've been playing out and about for some months now.
Jerry's are a complete contrast with the O Briain jobs. Whereas Cillian's treatment seems to tame the whistle, reducing the air requirements to almost nothing and purifying the tone, Jerry's seem to let the Generations off the leash.
They are quite loud - I'm sure they are significantly louder than any Generation D I've played before, although as I say I haven't an out-of-the-box model to compare them with. They are certainly louder than my own tweaked ones (using my patented squashed-windway technique).
All this is very enjoyable. Jerry talks about back-pressure but that's not how I would describe the blowing requirements. They are quite free blowing but you do need to play them pretty assertively - in total contrast to the O Briain ones. (The mealy-mouthed way you have to play O Briains is what I dislike about them, in fact.)
Jerry's whistles are very playable and responsive, as a good Generation should be of course. The have a strong, clear bottom end and a not-shrill top end. All in all I like them very well.
The only reservation I have about them is that they have a bit more of an edge to the sound than I am used to. In my own tweaking efforts I've always been aiming at a sweeter sound. Maybe sweetness and volume are incompatible. But despite this I've been enjoying playing what strike me as somewhat "in your face" Generations from Jerry, and I think for certain situations the volume will be useful.
E.g. I played one at a dance gig the other weekend and was able to hear myself OK on stage - which I haven't been able to do using my own, tamer modified whistles. And at a session the other day I passed it to Azalin and played my own, and all I could hear was him. (He wouldn't give it back to me, which is another good sign, if very annoying - and typical of the guy.)
The replacement I received today is less edgy than the original one, and I gather that the one in the mail is sweeter than either. We'll see. So I look forward to it...
I wasn't going to write anything about them just yet because Jerry and I have been having quite an exchange of messages and he's been experimenting in response to my feedback - at least that's what I gather because he tells me a third one is now in the mail!
My initial impressions are very favourable. Unfortunately I don't have an untouched Generation D in the house, but I can compare them with a Cillian O Briain whistle (with a modified Generation head) and several Gens I've modified myself, including a couple I'm very happy with that I've been playing out and about for some months now.
Jerry's are a complete contrast with the O Briain jobs. Whereas Cillian's treatment seems to tame the whistle, reducing the air requirements to almost nothing and purifying the tone, Jerry's seem to let the Generations off the leash.
They are quite loud - I'm sure they are significantly louder than any Generation D I've played before, although as I say I haven't an out-of-the-box model to compare them with. They are certainly louder than my own tweaked ones (using my patented squashed-windway technique).
All this is very enjoyable. Jerry talks about back-pressure but that's not how I would describe the blowing requirements. They are quite free blowing but you do need to play them pretty assertively - in total contrast to the O Briain ones. (The mealy-mouthed way you have to play O Briains is what I dislike about them, in fact.)
Jerry's whistles are very playable and responsive, as a good Generation should be of course. The have a strong, clear bottom end and a not-shrill top end. All in all I like them very well.
The only reservation I have about them is that they have a bit more of an edge to the sound than I am used to. In my own tweaking efforts I've always been aiming at a sweeter sound. Maybe sweetness and volume are incompatible. But despite this I've been enjoying playing what strike me as somewhat "in your face" Generations from Jerry, and I think for certain situations the volume will be useful.
E.g. I played one at a dance gig the other weekend and was able to hear myself OK on stage - which I haven't been able to do using my own, tamer modified whistles. And at a session the other day I passed it to Azalin and played my own, and all I could hear was him. (He wouldn't give it back to me, which is another good sign, if very annoying - and typical of the guy.)
The replacement I received today is less edgy than the original one, and I gather that the one in the mail is sweeter than either. We'll see. So I look forward to it...
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jonharl
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I agree with your comments about the O'Briain Improved, although it's my best cheap whistle. The two Gens I have buzz and squeek too much to be useful, but I like the tone. Jerry calls it husky, I hope it resembles that resonance(sp?) pop I got from the Sindt D. Although I know it won't be as pure as a Sindt.
Jon
Jon
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Wombat
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I have a full set of Jerry-tweaked Gens that I am still getting used to, not that they take much getting used to. Of the batch, the only one that presented any initial control difficulties was the D and it is pretty well behaved now.
I don't have Steve's extensive experience with Gens tweaked by others or with untweaked Gens. But I've liked the sound and been a bit frustrated with the untweaked Eb I owned, especially when it lurched off unexpectedly into a grungy netherworld all its own. Doing a direct comparison, the Jerry-tweaked Eb has pretty much what I like about my untweaked Eb minus the problems.
I don't yet find that I can get quite the sweetness or pop from my new Generation D that I get from my Sindt but it's early days yet and I'll probably end up trying several of Jerry's Ds in search of my ideal Gen. Some people actually find Sindts less tonally pleasing than Gens. At this stage, all I can say is that I'm really very happy with all of these whistles and will play them a lot. I've long wanted good Generations and I feel I now have good Generations, thanks to Jerry.
I don't have Steve's extensive experience with Gens tweaked by others or with untweaked Gens. But I've liked the sound and been a bit frustrated with the untweaked Eb I owned, especially when it lurched off unexpectedly into a grungy netherworld all its own. Doing a direct comparison, the Jerry-tweaked Eb has pretty much what I like about my untweaked Eb minus the problems.
I don't yet find that I can get quite the sweetness or pop from my new Generation D that I get from my Sindt but it's early days yet and I'll probably end up trying several of Jerry's Ds in search of my ideal Gen. Some people actually find Sindts less tonally pleasing than Gens. At this stage, all I can say is that I'm really very happy with all of these whistles and will play them a lot. I've long wanted good Generations and I feel I now have good Generations, thanks to Jerry.
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Cayden
I came to very different conclusions than Steve, partly a matter of taste [especially the increased strength of the blowing which I don't think is an improvement at all] and partly not. Jerry did send me an untweaked from the same batch, they are loud but the untweaked one was actually the louder one. I am still talking to Jerry about things so won't go into it further. I certainly do not think Jerry 'unleashed' the one I have, on the contrary.
Edit, I recorded a few clips for Jerry just now, one comparing the Tweaked one with a Sindt and an Oak. Interestingly the sweetest whistle of the three, the Oak showed up on the graph as the loudest, followed by the Sindt and Jerry's being the overall quiet one of the three.
Edit, I recorded a few clips for Jerry just now, one comparing the Tweaked one with a Sindt and an Oak. Interestingly the sweetest whistle of the three, the Oak showed up on the graph as the loudest, followed by the Sindt and Jerry's being the overall quiet one of the three.
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Jerry Freeman
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This is an interesting project, indeed.
The main thing, as far as I can tell, that's coming into play here, is the fact that all facets of a whistle are interrelated. I'm having to weigh various aspects of the whistle's sound and playability to determine what I consider to be the best mixture I can come up with that will please the most people.
I believe the main factor involved here is what I call the "stability" of the whistle.
Peter has frequently reported that he has no difficulty with untweaked Generations and wonders what all the fuss is about "unplayable" Generations.
I send him an untweaked Generation that I considered almost unplayable, together with a tweaked one from the same shipment of whistles (which had been very consistent with respect to playability). Peter recorded clips for me, comparing the tweaked Generation with a pre-1981 "good" Generation he has. He pointed out that the vintage Generation was a bit brighter sounding, and I agreed.
I asked him if he would be willing to record a clip comparing the tweaked Generation with the untweaked one from the same batch I had sent him, thinking, "now he'll see how much harder the untweaked one is to play and he'll understand!"
I received back two clips of Peter's wonderful playing (he is far too modest about this), showing no evidence of his being inconvenienced in the slightest by the delicacy of playing the untweaked Generation. I was very impressed. And, yes, the untweaked Generation did sound a bit brighter than the tweaked one.
At that point, I did a little experimenting and found that removing the poster putty fill under the windway restores the brightness, but at some loss of playability in the sense that more of the notes require careful blowing to avoid overblowing, buzz, etc.
I asked Peter if he would please take a paperclip or bit of wire or exacto knife and remove the poster putty fill and try the tweaked whistle again, but as far as I can tell, he hasn't gotten to that step yet.
The whistle I sent Peter was one of the huskier sounding type. Today or tomorrow, I'll send him one of the sweeter sounding ones to try.
On the matter of loudness, I'm not sure what conclusions I can draw. Until Steve commented that the whistle I sent him is louder, I hadn't noticed that these whistles were noticeably louder than what I'm used to in a Generation. I'll be sending Steve another whistle soon, too, so we'll find out if the first one I sent was unusual in that regard.
Both of these transactions involve international mail, so we can expect to wait another ten days to two weeks before both gentlemen have the next round of tweaked whistles to try.
Stay tuned.
Best wishes,
Jerry
P.S. Peter and Steve, I hope I've portrayed our discussions accurately. If I've left anything out or need to be corrected on any point, please post accordingly. As I've told you both, I'm very grateful for your help in this work.
The main thing, as far as I can tell, that's coming into play here, is the fact that all facets of a whistle are interrelated. I'm having to weigh various aspects of the whistle's sound and playability to determine what I consider to be the best mixture I can come up with that will please the most people.
I believe the main factor involved here is what I call the "stability" of the whistle.
Peter has frequently reported that he has no difficulty with untweaked Generations and wonders what all the fuss is about "unplayable" Generations.
I send him an untweaked Generation that I considered almost unplayable, together with a tweaked one from the same shipment of whistles (which had been very consistent with respect to playability). Peter recorded clips for me, comparing the tweaked Generation with a pre-1981 "good" Generation he has. He pointed out that the vintage Generation was a bit brighter sounding, and I agreed.
I asked him if he would be willing to record a clip comparing the tweaked Generation with the untweaked one from the same batch I had sent him, thinking, "now he'll see how much harder the untweaked one is to play and he'll understand!"
I received back two clips of Peter's wonderful playing (he is far too modest about this), showing no evidence of his being inconvenienced in the slightest by the delicacy of playing the untweaked Generation. I was very impressed. And, yes, the untweaked Generation did sound a bit brighter than the tweaked one.
At that point, I did a little experimenting and found that removing the poster putty fill under the windway restores the brightness, but at some loss of playability in the sense that more of the notes require careful blowing to avoid overblowing, buzz, etc.
I asked Peter if he would please take a paperclip or bit of wire or exacto knife and remove the poster putty fill and try the tweaked whistle again, but as far as I can tell, he hasn't gotten to that step yet.
The whistle I sent Peter was one of the huskier sounding type. Today or tomorrow, I'll send him one of the sweeter sounding ones to try.
On the matter of loudness, I'm not sure what conclusions I can draw. Until Steve commented that the whistle I sent him is louder, I hadn't noticed that these whistles were noticeably louder than what I'm used to in a Generation. I'll be sending Steve another whistle soon, too, so we'll find out if the first one I sent was unusual in that regard.
Both of these transactions involve international mail, so we can expect to wait another ten days to two weeks before both gentlemen have the next round of tweaked whistles to try.
Stay tuned.
Best wishes,
Jerry
P.S. Peter and Steve, I hope I've portrayed our discussions accurately. If I've left anything out or need to be corrected on any point, please post accordingly. As I've told you both, I'm very grateful for your help in this work.
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Cayden
I would take one little step further, I actually think the untweaked one was much easier to play than the tweaked one. I did have a quibble with the untweaked one, the octave was a bit raspy and I wouldn't have picked it for that reason. Then again, the tweak hadn't solved the rasp in the one Jerry 'improved' but to my ear left it there, according to my partner though who has tinnitus and is fussy over these things [and she's for the same reason not a great fan of the tin whistle] the rasp was actually increased by the tweak.
I haven't taken the bluetack out, I think it's more usefull to leave it in and keep the tweak intact while we are talkign about it. I know what the bluetack does, I have tried it in a few of my whistles and took it out after a few weeks because I didn't like them dulled in that way.
As for volume, I think the impression of loudness has to do with them being new, they usually mellow a bit when the stuff you blow into them settles on the insides.
I haven't taken the bluetack out, I think it's more usefull to leave it in and keep the tweak intact while we are talkign about it. I know what the bluetack does, I have tried it in a few of my whistles and took it out after a few weeks because I didn't like them dulled in that way.
As for volume, I think the impression of loudness has to do with them being new, they usually mellow a bit when the stuff you blow into them settles on the insides.
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Cayden
In fairness I think I should report now that I just received another whistle from Jerry, which he set up the way he thought I would like it [based on my reaction to the first one which, to be really honest now, I didn't like one little bit]. I have just given the new whistle a quick spin and it's sweet, it's responsive and it's easy to play AND this one does Jerry says what his Generation tweaks do, it sounds like a good Generation. Fair play so, I like it very much.
I must also say this really emphasises it is not a good idea at all to buy whistles [or any instrument at all] on-line or by mail order, the two whistles I received from Jerry were VERY different from eachother and you can only really pick them by hand to suit your needs. Or let a maker know what you want and get it straight off him/her.
I must also say this really emphasises it is not a good idea at all to buy whistles [or any instrument at all] on-line or by mail order, the two whistles I received from Jerry were VERY different from eachother and you can only really pick them by hand to suit your needs. Or let a maker know what you want and get it straight off him/her.
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TonyHiggins
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Good time to chime in. I received one of Jerry's whisltles 1-2wks ago. I pulled out my very first whistle, a Generation I bought in 1976 and compared them. (I have stuffing in the space below the windway in the old one.) They are two vastly different whistles.
Jerry's has more back pressure and is very breathy. It also takes a fair amount of air to play, and like Steve said, you have to play it aggressively. (He may have said that...) It's certainly stable and tolerant of cutting loose with it. At first, I wasn't sure I'd like it because it makes me very slightly lightheaded and I have to choose places to breathe more carefully and frequently. (That's not a bad exercise, by the way.)
The old Generation takes a lighter breath, is freer blowing, and brighter sounding with much less breathiness (which is basically the same thing to me). It's also less tolerant of a lapse in breath control. Ironically, having gone through the Whoa disorder looking for some quintessential whistle tone in various high end and tweaked whistles, I come full circle to discover the old Generation, which has sat in a drawer out of sight, is really a very decent whistle.
What has always appealed to me in whistle tone is what you hear on older Chieftains recordings. That was my standard, my holy grail. I think Jerry's tweaked, breathy whistle approaches that more closely than the untweaked Gen. It so happens Ronaldo Reyburn's high d's also approach this and sound very similar to the tweaked I got from Jerry. The Reyburn takes a bit more air and makes me more light-headed.
Like I said, at first, I wasn't sure I was happy with Jerry's tweaked. As I've grown accustomed to it, I like it more and I consider it a nice addition. I just recorded something on it today and with the old Gen. I haven't listened to the recording yet. If it's not too embarrassing, I'll post them both.
Tony
Jerry's has more back pressure and is very breathy. It also takes a fair amount of air to play, and like Steve said, you have to play it aggressively. (He may have said that...) It's certainly stable and tolerant of cutting loose with it. At first, I wasn't sure I'd like it because it makes me very slightly lightheaded and I have to choose places to breathe more carefully and frequently. (That's not a bad exercise, by the way.)
The old Generation takes a lighter breath, is freer blowing, and brighter sounding with much less breathiness (which is basically the same thing to me). It's also less tolerant of a lapse in breath control. Ironically, having gone through the Whoa disorder looking for some quintessential whistle tone in various high end and tweaked whistles, I come full circle to discover the old Generation, which has sat in a drawer out of sight, is really a very decent whistle.
What has always appealed to me in whistle tone is what you hear on older Chieftains recordings. That was my standard, my holy grail. I think Jerry's tweaked, breathy whistle approaches that more closely than the untweaked Gen. It so happens Ronaldo Reyburn's high d's also approach this and sound very similar to the tweaked I got from Jerry. The Reyburn takes a bit more air and makes me more light-headed.
Like I said, at first, I wasn't sure I was happy with Jerry's tweaked. As I've grown accustomed to it, I like it more and I consider it a nice addition. I just recorded something on it today and with the old Gen. I haven't listened to the recording yet. If it's not too embarrassing, I'll post them both.
Tony
http://tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/newspage.htm Officially, the government uses the term “flap,” describing it as “a condition, a situation or a state of being, of a group of persons, characterized by an advanced degree of confusion that has not quite reached panic proportions.”
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TonyHiggins
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Went and posted two clips, Wise Maid (Jerry's tweaked) and Shandon Bells (untweaked)
http://tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/newspage.htm Officially, the government uses the term “flap,” describing it as “a condition, a situation or a state of being, of a group of persons, characterized by an advanced degree of confusion that has not quite reached panic proportions.”