Perfectly OT: Languishing words

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Zubivka
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PAUVRES BOUGRES !

Post by Zubivka »

Never mind Darcy Dancer, this bug in your dictionary is one the ugliest heritages left by the Northmen and catholic Rome to common English.

From Bulgar(us, i), a reference to the Bogomils, a sect originating from Bulgaria, and condemned by Rome as heretic. It was probably hence accused of every sin
including sodomy, this as part of the propaganda involved for the Crusade against the Cathars (theologically directly related to the Bogomils). Remember the "Kill them all! God will sort them out..." ? This is the tragic epilogue of this Crusade.

The "Perfecti" among the Cathars were themselves accused of sodomy, and burnt as such. It was quicker an accsuation than to demonstrate heresy against these well-trained scholars. However, the monacal rules of the Perfecti included celibacy and abstinence; you're not recognized as a priest, but you don't touch women? This is against the holy laws of nature, ergo... the Inquisitor sues you for homosexuality.

Today, both Bogomilism and Catharism are considered as an early attempt to renew Christianity in its original form, which included a rejection of Roman church and its obscurantism. Hence, the Cathar areas of France were to become early supports of Protestantism.

Another explanation is that "sodomist" and "heretic" were equivalent crimes before the Inquisition. Hence, the amalgamation of both crimes, on behalf of the poor Bulgars.

Distorted by French to bougre (still used as an insult, usually mild as in "pauvre bougre" (poor chap), but sometimes worse), then by English in bugger.

Later, it may be noted that the same slander of sodomy and/or homosexuality was often used in the catholic crackdowns against Masonry...

Hence, this vile "bugger" is derived from a medieval libel, and is probably the oldest homophobic insult.

Thank you for your attention... ;)
Last edited by Zubivka on Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by glauber »

If you like this kind of stuff, you'll enjoy reading "The Name of the Rose". :Plenty of references to bogomils and cathars there. :)
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Post by markv »

Bloomfield wrote:
markv wrote:How about this one.

Moot as a verb, specifically: To discuss by way of exercise; to argue for
practice; to propound and discuss in a mock court.

Bloomfield was prone to moot about various and sundry topics on the message board.

Mark V.
I deprecate the tendency in (American) English to turn everything into verbs. Some of the heinous examples include "parenting", "task," as in "We have tasked Nano to provide light entertainment"... I could think of more examples but I don't want to because it makes my teeth itch.

So, please join me in regarding the verb moot as moot. ;)
I would agree wholeheartedly. However, the verb form of moot is hardly a modern bastardization of a perfectly usefull noun.

The following is from the 1913 edition of Webster's Dictionary

\Moot\, v.
See 1st {Mot}. [Obs.] --Chaucer.


\Moot\, n. (Shipbuilding)
A ring for gauging wooden pins.


\Moot\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Mooted}; p. pr. & vb. n.
{Mooting}.] [OE. moten, motien, AS. m[=o]tan to meet or
assemble for conversation, to discuss, dispute, fr. m[=o]t,
gem[=o]t, a meeting, an assembly; akin to Icel. m[=o]t, MHG.
muoz. Cf. {Meet} to come together.]
1. To argue for and against; to debate; to discuss; to
propose for discussion.

A problem which hardly has been mentioned, much less
mooted, in this country. --Sir W.
Hamilton.

2. Specifically: To discuss by way of exercise; to argue for
practice; to propound and discuss in a mock court.

First a case is appointed to be mooted by certain
young men, containing some doubtful controversy.
--Sir T.
Elyot.


\Moot\, v. i.
To argue or plead in a supposed case.

There is a difference between mooting and pleading;
between fencing and fighting. --B. Jonson.
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Zubivka
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Post by Zubivka »

glauber wrote:If you like this kind of stuff, you'll enjoy reading "The Name of the Rose". :Plenty of references to bogomils and cathars there. :)
Correct. It's precisely the time when an originally elective power--the Vatican--struggled to become totalitarian, the Inquisition becoming one of the very first "thought polices" in history of dictatorships. Note that "thought police" always included sex police... nothing new.
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Post by herbivore12 »

Anyone who loves old and/or odd words, and reading, should look into Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin novels (some of the best historical fiction ever, centered on the 18th/19th century British navy). Along with those novels, there's a companion book called "A Sea of Words" which explains and defines many of the odd words and phrases used in the books.

You'll learn that "the bitter end" actually refers to getting to the end of the anchor rope (the end that it stored in the bitt), which was a bad thing if you were trying to gain anchorage to avoid being slammed against a shore, dire straits indeed.

The marthambles (abdominal illness), soused hog's face (a dinner dish), drowned baby (a pudding), contubernal (one who occupies the same tent as another), urinator (one who dives underwater), slubberdegullion (a useless person), slow-belly (a lazy person), flog the glass (to shake the hourglass to speed the sand, to shorten the watch). All this and much, much more (sea-battles, spying, naval intrigues, natural history, politics by land, on and on, smashing stuff).

I think "Flog the Glass" would be a great tune name . . .
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Post by Bloomfield »

Second that. You haven't lived, if you don't know what cross-catharpings are, or that saying "there'll be the devil to pay" doesn't mean that you have struck diabolic bargains.
/Bloomfield
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Post by LeeMarsh »

Though my post be superfluous
and miss the apex of this epoch topic
I just want to add ...

Shrubbery

'Tis only a surreal python-esk reference.

Upon reflection, mayhaps you'd prefer to ...
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Post by Zubivka »

NI! ;)


Now, I would like to ad wickets to the list.
Whenever I hear it, I think of a lawn in Kent.
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Post by TelegramSam »

LeeMarsh wrote:Though my post be superfluous
and miss the apex of this epoch topic
I just want to add ...

Shrubbery

'Tis only a surreal python-esk reference.

Upon reflection, mayhaps you'd prefer to ...
It's also british slang for a prostitute, which is why the scene in The Holy Grail is funny. Gotta love double entendres, hrm?
<i>The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.</i>
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Post by emmline »

Zubivka wrote:NI! ;)


Now, I would like to ad wickets to the list.
Whenever I hear it, I think of a lawn in Kent.
I always supposed that was spelled "NEE!"
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Post by TelegramSam »

"に" or perhaps "二"
<i>The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.</i>
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Post by Nanohedron »

What I really love about English is its own flavor of onomatopœia (just wanted to throw in an obsolescent spelling, there :) ), especially in nouns/verbs that are descriptions of sounds, not just directly imitative. It would be interesting to compare notes on echoic words of other languages, I think. Screech. Murmur. Groan. Howl. Titter. Growl. Purr. Caw. Moan. Sob. Clash. Whisper. Bubble. Chug. Chatter. Mumble. Grumble. Yelp. Mutter. Twitter. Clang.
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Post by carrie »

Nanohedron wrote: Screech. Murmur. Groan. Howl. Titter. Growl. Purr. Caw. Moan. Sob. Clash. Whisper. Bubble. Chug. Chatter. Mumble. Grumble. Yelp. Mutter. Twitter. Clang.
Whistle

C
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Post by Walden »

cskinner wrote: Whistle

C
Golden Tone.
Reasonable person
Walden
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Post by Nanohedron »

cskinner wrote:
Nanohedron wrote: Screech. Murmur. Groan. Howl. Titter. Growl. Purr. Caw. Moan. Sob. Clash. Whisper. Bubble. Chug. Chatter. Mumble. Grumble. Yelp. Mutter. Twitter. Clang.
Whistle

C
Carol, you're balanced on a razor's edge with that one. I could almost accuse that post of being utterly OT. :wink:
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