Scottish Tunes on Uilleann pipes - Blasphemy??

cynipid · Post by **cynipid** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:10 am

I have recently started playing uilleann pipes, coming along slowly but surely. Although I listened primarily to traditional Irish music before deciding to play, my real passion is for the music of Scotland, including our unique Strathspeys and Shetland fiddle music.

Although I am learning mainly Irish tunes, when I become more proficient, I hope to play primarily Scottish music of the 18/19th century. I have not met a single Uilleann piper who plays anymore than a handful of Scottish tunes (Esp fiddle tunes) and I have often heard comments that Scottish tunes do not lend themselves well to the pipes, due to key differences. Are these facts or myths?

I know that many may consider my plans blasphemous, but I cannot help being much more drawn to the music of my homeland and hope my intention to play Scottish tunes on the pipes is not totally naive.

Any feedback welcome. I would be very interested to hear to what extent Scottish music is played on the pipes at the other side of the pond.

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:34 am

Cy, I don't hear much Scottish music played on UPs, but I think that may be due to narrowness of vision, not due to technical limitations. There are quite a few people who play GHBs that are also picking up UPs, and I would be very surprised if they weren't, surreptitiously at least, trying out their Scottish repertoire on the UPs.

There is a lot of Irish music that is very closely related to Scottish music, especially in the Donegal tradition. I'm not sure why you feel they are so different. Any tune can be transposed from one key to another. That should not deter you. The only problems you might run into are fiddle tunes that have a lot of accidentals, in which case you will want a UP chanter with keys. Fiddle tunes that go beyond two octaves would be a problem, but those would be pretty rare.

djm

Thorpe · Post by **Thorpe** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:39 am

I play both types of tunes, basically whichever ones i like and that fit. I think it doesnt matter if it "should" be played on an instrument if it sounds good.

Dan

meir · Post by **meir** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:44 am

scottish music and irish music are not as distinct as we would believe. there has been lots of crossfertilization over the centuries.
on the uilleann, you have a perfect "scottish" scale if you start on lower octave A. furthermore, notation of such music is often set up for that key so you will not have to transpose. by using your lower octave c natural, you also have a perfect scottish scale starting on low d, but you will miss the low c nat which does not exist on the uilleann pipes.

i think you will have a blast playing scottish music. just dont try to go for scottish pipe ornementation on the UPs. it will sound different, but very cool

meir

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:06 am

Fred Morrison

http://www.musicscotland.com/acatalog/F ... enemy.html

http://www.musicscotland.com/acatalog/T ... e_Sun.html

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:09 am

I don't think Meir has actually tried this, a least not with his drones on.

During the 80 piper John Murphy played a lot of strathpeys, long runs of triplets, all that stuff and we've all indulged oursleves playing the Clumsy Lover and Troy's wedding and the like. Some fit the pipes, most don't.
I don't think DJM's favourite exclamation, 'narrowness of vision' does really apply, I have tapes of Seamus Ennis [who was equally proficient on Uilleann pipes and Warpipes] playing scottish tunes on his Coyne set. They didn't really fit but it is interesting to hear. Contrary to what is said above, I do think Irish and Scottish music are distinctly different, despite the obvious exchanges that have taken place and are still taking place.

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:13 am

There is a lot of Irish music that is very closely related to Scottish music, especially in the Donegal tradition. I'm not sure why you feel they are so different. Any tune can be transposed from one key to another. That should not deter you. The only problems you might run into are fiddle tunes that have a lot of accidentals, in which case you will want a UP chanter with keys. Fiddle tunes that go beyond two octaves would be a problem, but those would be pretty rare.

djm

Some of the best Irish reels probably came over from Scotland [I don't think Col Fraser was an Irishman

].

Never play fiddle tunes on the pipes...it could cause corrosion.

The good players will take a fiddle tune and re-jig it to sit on the pipes.
Eliot Grasso and Robbie Hannan are great men for that sort of thing.

Donegal's John Doherty was a great man for taking Scottish tunes and making them Irish.

So put your own piping style into anything Scottish you play....and you need a lot of good technique and experience to do that properly.
Just make sure it sounds right when you've done it [with the drones on!]

Boyd

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:45 am

Peter, I simply meant that there is no reason more people couldn't be playing Scottish music on UPs.

Meir, the key signature may be different on the dots, but it would be a poor musician who couldn't transpose to suit the UPs. Playing in A all the time wouldn't go too well with the drones on a D set. Much better to transpose to D, or to G if you need to drop down a step.

Yes, there are differences in the rhythms normally chosen between Irish and Scottish music, but there is little or nothing in the basic tunes themselves that would preclude Scottish music being played on UPs. Liam O'Flynn does a nice strathspey on his Piper's Call album, which I believe was also played by Jerry O'Sullivan. Obviously there is some playing of Scottish tunes on UPs going on. Same with Seamus Ennis and Willie Clancy and Chris Langan.

My point is that there could be a lot more of it going on, if that's the kind of music you prefer. I don't think Cy should limit himself if he'd rather play Scottish music on UPs just because there aren't a lot of others doing it (yet).

djm

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:49 am

I have a friend with a five drone concert D set (two A drones) which works well for playing in A with a Scottish fiddler. He has toyed with a reed for his tenor drone to play an E to go along with it.

Ted

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:30 pm

Scottish tunes are great. They are ideal for limbering up yer fingers. All those tunes in A, all that tapping, all those C#s....Drooool.

Alan

marcpipes · Post by **marcpipes** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:40 pm

Some of the Scottish tunes I like on U.P.:
March:Neil Gow's Farewell to Whiskey 2/4
Campbells Farewell to Red Castle 4/4
Wings 4/4
Flett from Flotta 4/4(makes a good strath too)
March of the Champions Supreme 4/4
Royal Scot's Polka 2/4
Lilly Christy 6/8
Bonny Dundee 6/8
When the Battle is Over 3/4
Reel: Captain Lachlan MacPhail of Tyree(start on G instead of A)
Devil Among the Tailors
Dancing Feet
Back of the Moon
The Ness Pipers(start on E)
Andy Renwick's Ferret(E)
Donald MacLeod
Hornpipes:Train Journey North
Tom Bain's Lum
Pipe Major George Allen
Duncan MacInnes
Crossing the Minch
Slow Airs: MacCrimmon Will Never Return
I Will Go Home to Kintail
Leaving ST. Kilda
Suo Gan(Welsh?)
25 tunes right there, enough to get you through a gig by themselves. There are lot's of tunes that cross over well, some are downright horrid too.
Just make them your own.
Marc

cynipid · Post by **cynipid** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:15 pm

Thanks for all the feedback. I am not trying to play Devil's Advocate, but I am interested to see opinions are mixed. At the end of the day, I know myself that there is a lot of cross-over between Scottish/Irish music, but I know where my passions lie and I will continue down that road, even if it means receiving some negative feedback. After all, the point is to play for our own pleasure first and foremost (for me, anyway).Thanks for tune lists and encouragement. Should the exchanges contunue, I should point out that I am a she and not a he!!

Thanks for the additional comment about drooling - I'll know when I have become proficient then.....

bring on Da forfeit O Da Ship!

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:04 pm

Play whatever you want and feck to all detractors. Play 'em as close as you can if you want, or take all the Scottishness out and inject 'em full of Irishness. Junk the low Cs in D tunes etc.
They're your pipes, after all; and the pipes are such a piss of an instrument to play in the first place, I say have a good time and hooey to anyone that has a grouse.
Wasn't there a big to-do about Robbie Hannon's audacity in playing Donegal fiddle tunes on the pipes? How it was stepping out of the tradition or something? How do people find the time to champion such stupid causes! And Robbie's not exactly a bungler at what he does, anyway.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:17 pm

"detractors?" Surely you just jest. You must mean redactors.
Maybe I'm just having anagramic problems again.

The Sporting Pitchfork · Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:26 pm

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