OT: Should Dale buy a 2003 Toyota Echo?

madguy · Post by **madguy** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:14 am

Buy American!

~Larry

antstastegood · Post by **antstastegood** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:27 pm

madguy wrote:With the mess George W. has our economy in, I'd say buy American.

Buy American, but for different reasons that I will not discuss in the open forum.

Isn't there a hybrid Dodge Durango that's supposed to be good?

Anyway, I second the recommendations for the Civic Hybrid, and even the regular Civic.

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:28 pm

Buy Americans!

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:08 pm

But Toyotas and Hondas are made in North America employing many in the United States and Canada not say the thousands that work in the secondary industries either servicing them or making parts for them.

MarkB

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:41 pm

As a child of a GM family, I have to come down in favor of good solid Detroit sheet metal.

For you Detroiters out there: "Tanks, but no tanks, to imports!"

"Mel Farr, superstar..."

"Here dawg, c'mon, dawg..."

Seth · Post by **Seth** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:30 pm

Most Hondas and Toyotas sold in America are at least 50 percent American made with some Hondas going all the way up to 80 percent. You are still doing your part to 'support the economy' buying these brands.

Seth

Liam · Post by **Liam** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:51 pm

The big problem with the buy American philosphy is identifying what is America. Chrysler is owned by Mercedes, Ford owns Land Rover, Volvo and Jaguar and also has a major stake in Mazda and GM owns Saab and has major stakes in Subaru, Suzuki and Isuzu. Likewise both GM and Ford make cars for American Consumption in Canada, Mexico and other non American places while Honda and Toyota both make cars in the United States as do BMW and Mercedes (besides their Chrysler holdings). And of course the stockholders in these countries are scattered around the world.

Finally I also wonder.... do not the non-Americans who make products for import into this country have a right to make a living too? Don't we complain when people in Japan and other countries buy only products from their own country making it hard for us to sell our products there?

--
Bill

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:45 pm

I have owned Toyota since I first bought a 1985 Tercel and it went 195,000 miles without a single problem until the front end got run over by some lady in a Cadillac, trying to pass a bus. Stats:
1985 Tercel - 195,000 miles, prematurely totalled
1988 Corolla - 384,000 miles, traded for current 1997 4Runner when I needed 4WD
1991 Camry wagon - 210,000 miles, traded for current 2000 Tundra
1997 4Runner - 197,000 miles - still in service, no problems
1996 Tercel - purchased due to 40MPG - 102,000 miles, still in service, presently needs a starter motor overhaul (big deal - 35 bucks)
2000 Tundra pickup - 140,000 miles, still in service, no problems.

Need I say more...?

serpent

antstastegood · Post by **antstastegood** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:05 am

How on earth do you rack up 140,000 miles in three years?

JohnPalmer · Post by **JohnPalmer** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:20 am

I think not!

Anyone who has as many whistles and followers as Dale should only be driving the biggest, baddest, most expensive Cadillac one can find!

(I'll supply him with the big cigars.)

JP

OutOfBreath · Post by **OutOfBreath** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:47 am

antstastegood wrote:How on earth do you rack up 140,000 miles in three years?

I thought my commute was long...

Maybe he's running prescription drugs from Canada to SoCal

Actually, I've known regional sales reps that put mighty close to 100k a year on their company vehicles, though. Of course, that's here in the SW where a "region" can be pretty spread out.

John

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:11 pm

When I got the 1985 Tercel, I was driving 212 miles round trip every day to work, plus running from Santo, TX, to Kansas City MO every weekend. I continued that through the 1988 Corolla, which I also transported to CA with me and made the 85 mile one-way run from Gilroy to Orinda every day. Ring any bells, Bay Area commuters?

Is it any wonder I think Toyota motorcars' durability is nothing short of miraculous? Try the above with your Dodge (Ford, Chevy, Mercedes, Nissan, etc.) SUV. I'll help you get home when you're thumbin' rides. I'll be the one driving a Toyota. Any Toyota.

Cheers,

serpent

Paraphrasing: The worst Toyota I ever had was wonderful!

riasgt · Post by **riasgt** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:35 am

Toyotas are my choice of Vehicle!

My Car history:

Chevy Nova '76 80,000 mi -> died painful agonizing death shaking itself apart if it went faster than 65 mph

Chevy Caprise Station Wagon '80 -> got it to 100,050 and died. transmission and engine went at the sametime (preprogrammed in Detroit to self destruct after 100K?)

Mazda 323 Coupe '87 -> transmission gave out at 84K

VW Eurovan 93 125,000 -> Didn't want to pay $200 per headlamp anymore. I had been told it would run forever, but perhaps they were referring to the old VWs. My feelings about VW is thus: VolksWagon translates into: Hitler's revenge on the world for losing the war.)

Toyota Camry '93 150,000 ->NO PROBLEMs

Toyota Rav4 '98 70,000 -> still going strong

All my friends who have toyotas LOVE them and they run forever. Hondas also run forever but are on average $2,000 more expensive to purchase over the equivilent Toyota.

Why doesn't Detroit catch on to the need for cars that last more than 100,000 miles without major problems?

OutOfBreath · Post by **OutOfBreath** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:40 pm

riasgt wrote:Why doesn't Detroit catch on to the need for cars that last
more than 100,000 miles without major problems?

I don't think that statement is quite fair

I've owned Toyotas, VWs (the old air cooled bugs and busses) and Datsuns (forerunner of Nissan) of vintage from mid 60's on.

I've also owned American cars both large and small from the same time period.

My general observation is that almost any new car you buy is going to last over 100,000 miles without major problems if you treat it halfway decently (change the oil, keep coolant in it, replace the belts when they should be, etc.) while almost any car from earlier than the mid seventies is going to be pretty well worn out by 100,000 miles.

The difference is in technology. Better manufacturing tolerances, better metallurgy, and better lubricants are making all cars last much longer than they did thirty years ago. Even how hot you run the motor makes a big difference. Up through the mid seventies they used to run motors relatively cool. Now, they use coolant systems that can stand higher pressure, and higher temperature thermostats, because there is actually less engine wear at higher temperatures.

Another difference is the way we drive now. Something like 95% of engine wear occurs at low engine temperatures. If you commute five miles to work the engine doesn't even get warmed up -- almost all of your miles are high-wear miles. If you commute forty or fifty miles almost all of your miles are low-wear miles.

My last car was a 91 Escort - it had 175,000 miles on it when it needed it's first "major" work (CV joints). It was just beginning to use about a half quart of oil between changes. I had the CV joints changed and expected to drive it at least another 50,000 miles when some brain-dead girl tried to pass me while I was making a left turn...

My car before that was an 86 Escort -- When I got rid of it it had 136,000 miles on it with no major problems (I did have to have the waterpump replaced but that was right after making a half dozen 700 mile round trips towing a heavy trailer). It was beginning to use oil when I sold it -- but it had an automatic transmission which makes those little four-bangers work a lot harder.

I also just gave my daughter my 1970 Chevy pickup. It's still running strong with no telling how many miles on it. (Of course, the 350 engine and transmission have been rebuilt).

I've had a couple of Toyotas that were excellent, on the other hand my son-in-law's '95 died with about 90,000 miles on it.

Of course, I wouldn't own a modern GM product -- that is one brand that I have had a lot of problems with -- besides which if you ever have to work on one you might as well just push it off a cliff -- they're the most mechanic-unfriendly cars I've seen (even worse than my old Fiat, and that's saying something!)

don · Post by **don** » Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:26 pm

My 93 Ford Ranger had over 170,000 miles on it when I sold it to some friends for a song because they needed to get around. They drove it for year, and sold it for $2300, and it was still running great.

My VW rabbit had the original clutch at 223,000.

Is it luck? Can't be great driving, I can tell you that. Cars are built better now than they were when Honda imported their first 600 cc car.

Chiff and Fipple Forums

OT: Should Dale buy a 2003 Toyota Echo?

But what is American these days?