How much benefit from whistling?

[Whistlin'Dixie]

The geezers were cited as an example, as musicians who are low on technicality and high on the musicality. In this case I think the technical control the geezer have over their instruments has been totally underated. For they have enough mastery over their instrument so as to bring out the music as they have it in their minds - that same music that is with incredible rhythmic lift and drive. That is no mean feat by itself, from my perspective.

I would agree totally with this statement. Their minds, flutes, fingers are completely in sync.

That is where I want to be someday. After years and years of practice....

Mary

[Blackbeer]

Oh boy here is on of my pet pieves. Technique. Again let me refer to Martial arts. As an ex instructor my most chalenging task was to put across the importance of technique. It can be difficult to convey to the student until they injure themselves while trying some advanced movements. Or when taking part in a turnament(ours were always full contact) and getting the poop kicked out of them.
I have found the Irish flute to be the most chalanging instrument I have ever taken on. I see little relationship between it and the whistle, except for the number of holes in the tube. I have had to emerse myself in the flute to make any headway at all. I try to listen to the geezer mp3`s everyday. Not just for the music but for the individual voices, the potential of the flute to express ones own feelings. This, in my humble opinion, is the magic of the flute. But before this potential can be realized one must get a handle on the technical side of the instrument. And believe it or not this can be fun. Oh and by the way, I think that flute playing can improve your whistle playing, but not the other way round.

Tom

[glauber]

I humbly submit that the best thing for a flutist about playing the whistle is to be able to forget the technique for a while and concentrate on the music. I think the whistle is great for learning tunes, and it's great for getting the general feel of Irish music, without having to learn all than plus flute technique at the same time.

[Numex]

I humbly submit that the best thing for a flutist about playing the whistle is to be able to forget the technique for a while and concentrate on the music. I think the whistle is great for learning tunes, and it's great for getting the general feel of Irish music, without having to learn all than plus flute technique at the same time.

Being newer to all this, I have to be even humbler . But I would agree with the above, at least in my case. Coming from a Boehm flute, I first got a low G whistle to see if I could do the whole keyless thing. After working on that for maybe a year, I took the dive to the keyless flute. At times, when I'm trying to get the feel for a tune or work some details of a tune, I find that I can simplify things for my little brain by using the low G whistle; not having to think of the extra things that proper flute playing entails helps me in these cases. I've done a fair amount of dog training using positive reinforcement techniques, and one of the basic principles is that you don't add all the *variables* at once; you concentrate on one thing at a time, add variables incrementally. A human example:1) try walking across a room; 2)then walk across the room and chew gum at the same time; 3)walk across room, chew gum, and rub your tummy..... o.k., I'll hush up.... just don't bite

[Gordon]

At this point, we actually all seem to be on the same page (or 3) here. What's now happening is that words like technique are being bent around to mean several things (which it does), and we're all ending up correct, point by point. Technique does not always mean the slick and flawless execution of every roll or cran; sometimes it's just the ability to know the instrument thoroughly, to play the music of choice with convincing authority; this is what the so-called geezers do, and most of the hotter, faster pups with the most expensive flutes can't even begin to approach this. Glauber is certainly right as far as an Irish feel and the absorption of the tunes is concerned, which is why pretty much all the old geezers, and young, started out on the whistle; basics, like rhythm and the tunes, and the variations, become ingrained, and then when the flute is mastered, the tunes and rhythms are there as support.
Those of us that started Irish music, and flute in general, as adults, will probably want to work on the flute mostly, and conquer these things simultaneously. I found working on the D whistle for tunes irritating, as I have a lower tolerance for the high pitch (too many years on an electric guitar), and moreover, I want to hear the deeper, fuller tones of the flute boost the power of the tune.
Regarding the "geezers" technique, I absolutely think they are underated (as a whole); if you've ever played a session or two with any of them that might still out and about, you are absolutely amazed at the fluidity, the groove, the variations, the catalog of material and just the overall grasp of the music which so many younger, faster, how-many-rolls-per-measure gunslingers cannot even begin to approach. I studied with one for almost a year -- there were no pretentions, no need to show off, no fear to sound like crap on a bad day, but I can still set a metronome to the kitchen recordings he made for me on a weekly basis, tune after tune, they are that dead-on.
Man, and I swore that I wasn't gonna add anything else, after Eldarion agreed with everything I said earlier!
Gordon

[Eldarion]

...after Eldarion agreed with everything I said earlier!

Errmm... no I didn't! *scans Gordon's posts for something to disagree on*

[chas]

Glauber is certainly right as far as an Irish feel and the absorption of the tunes is concerned, which is why pretty much all the old geezers, and young, started out on the whistle; basics, like rhythm and the tunes, and the variations, become ingrained, and then when the flute is mastered, the tunes and rhythms are there as support.
Those of us that started Irish music, and flute in general, as adults, will probably want to work on the flute mostly, and conquer these things simultaneously. I found working on the D whistle for tunes irritating, as I have a lower tolerance for the high pitch

Actually, the first part is one of the reasons that I am still pursuing whistle probably more than flute, and also one reason that I switch to whistle on bad flute days. Another reason is that I don't feel the same as you regarding the whistle. I still love the little things, am still rapidly improving, and don't think I'll ever abandon it. But with each passing week or month, I'm getting ever closer to a good flute day being more rewarding than a good whistle day.

[JessieK]

Yeah, Gordon, you make good points. I think I'm talking about a matter of rate of improvement as opposed to lack of improvement. I mean that it's ok with me if I don't improve really quickly. In 10 years, I'll still enjoy it and I'll be better than I am now, and four years ago I was a beginner and now I am intermediate. Working hard to get good at something is totally a good thing, but it's hard to do without positive feedback from the instrument. I have not encountered this (lack of positive feedback) with the flute (but I sure did with the fiddle).

I do think the whistle is excellent for learning the basic fingering of a new tune.

[Gordon]

Charlie, those are great reasons to play whistle. My only disagreement was that, physically, to learn flute properly, their similarities are pretty superficial. Still, in terms of playing and learning Irish music, as opposed to any single instrument, the simplicity of the whistle can't be beat.

Jessie, I never doubted that you, in reality, take playing music, and flute, pretty seriously; enjoying what you're doing is requisite, and you seem to have that in spades. Playing music in any case, to my mind, is not a contest.
All the best,
Gordon