Army funeral song?

feadogin · Post by **feadogin** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:56 pm

Ouch! I'm not even involved in this and I still feel upset by the hostility! I think everyone has a right to their own opinion. This kind of castigation is negative and hurtful. Why not take a step back and let it go, as cranberry seems graciously to be doing?

I honestly feel nervous about making postings here when I read exchanges like this.

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:59 pm

Actually, y'all, I just went back to the top and reread Cran's original post, and he said he despises military force, which he sees as murder, but he said nothing about the soldiers. I read that message to mean the use of military force, ie war, which is in fact instigated by the leaders, not by the folks in the military.

Just so you know, before everyone starts jumping on me, I'm not taking any sides here. Just pointing that out what was actually said is very different from what he's being yelled at for saying.

So, why don't we just take this opportunity to give a thought to those who have served or who are serving now. Several members of my wife's family have been or still are in the military. My father-in-law just retired this year after 36 years in the Navy. I plan to call him tonight to thank him for that. I think if everyone who knows a member or veteran of the military did that, it would be greatly appreciated.

Steven

ErikT · Post by **ErikT** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:22 pm

feadogin wrote:I think everyone has a right to their own opinion. This kind of castigation is negative and hurtful.

Which is it? Do we have a right to our opinion or are we negative and hurtful for expressing our opinion that we were hurt?

p.s. had the last 6 posters taken my advice, this thread would have dropped to the bottom. Obviously it's easier to proclaim our own opinions than to listen to someone elses. (you'll notice that I counted myself in the 6).

Erik

aderyn_du · Post by **aderyn_du** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:36 pm

Just something to think about...

I agree with the concept of free speech, whole-heartedly. However, words hold great power and we do have a responsibility to use our words with care. Something to remember is that when you don't choose your words with care and thought, is that you may very well be oppressing others by the way in which you choose to express your opinion. Each one of us, as human being sharing this world, has the charge of using our voices effectively-- but also respectfully. We have the power to use our voices to hurt or heal.

Blessings,
Andrea

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:56 pm

I have the deepest respect for the men and women who serve in our armed forces--and the most profound respect for those who have lost their lives to ensure and protect our freedoms.

We have a responsibility to them, every one of us, to respect those freedoms. To limit or curtail those freedoms is a slap in the face to everyone who ever shed blood in an effort to entrust them to our care.

We are stewards of those freedoms, and chief among them is freedom of speech, which Cran used.

Speech which everyone agrees with, after all, has no need of protection.

--James

ErikT · Post by **ErikT** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:05 pm

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:53 pm

Oh my. Two pages already? :roll:

Quote @ WhistlinGypsy

The least you could do is to apologize to the people you have hurt by your horrible remarks ~ but I guess that would be asking too much.....

I won't apologize unless I mean it and I'm not sorry for stating what I believe, that every person who fights in a war and kills another person is guilty of murder. Of course the people in charge (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush,) are just as guilty, but I'm not copping out by saying "I don't support the war but I support the troops." That's nonsense. I can't in good faith support people who are committing murder every single day. I understand most people are just doing what they're told and don't really have much choice in the matter, but that doesn't change the fact that people are being killed at the hands of the United States Government.

You know, the phrase "We kill people to show people that killing people is wrong." doesn't make sense, any way you cut it.

Quote @ don

It's easy when you're young to know you're right.

I am SICK AND TIRED of my age being brought up in everything to make it seem as though I am a complete imbecile who knows nothing. antstastegood and others on this board are younger than me or my age. Do they constantly get picked apart based on their age? No. Because they agree with the Bush Admininstration. Stop it.

Quote @ don, again

So thanks to all the Veterans - we may not always agreee - but you're the greatest.

That's the part I disagree with - that they're great. I think they're victims of society in many instances where the only real choice they had was to join the military. I feel sorry that if they are transgendered or gay they have to hide it, I feel sorry that they have orders to murder people that they have to follow. But do I support the murder, ever? Absolutely not.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:07 pm

The view that no killing in war can be justified is of course a venerable and honorable one. I don't think anyone who holds it should feel the need to apologize for it.

But what baffles me, Cran, is that you consider it necessary to state something like this as an aside, unnecessarily (like you have to reassure us that you are not a warmongering killer because you want to learn to play taps), and on Veterans' Day. And this has nothing to do with whether I agree with you or not.

ErikT · Post by **ErikT** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:38 pm

I think that it's interesting, Cranberry, how similar you and I are. It's intersting what a strong reaction we both have to things that we perceive to be murder. Perhaps we're cut from the same cloth.

lixnaw · Post by **lixnaw** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:14 pm

i don't think anyone here has the nerve to claim they won't kill when they're cornered and outnumbered.

but there's been enough argy-bargy and killings,
let's find the peace that's in all of our hearts and share it

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:14 pm

Interesting. I was thinking about Taps this morning, after hearing about the shortage of military buglers for veterans' funerals. Rather than relying on a taped rendition, or even the prototype digital bugle that would play it for you, local, non-service talent is being asked to fill the void.

There are a whole lot of bugle calls in addition to Reveille and Taps that are from the pre-electronic era when a nice, loud brass was needed to get the message across. I've heard Reveille played on trombone (at a band camp) but never heard bugle calls played on a whistle.

As for the tempest over Cranberry's remark, well, I think there's a difference between youth and immaturity: it is possible to be one without the other, just as it's possible to be both intelligent and insensitive.

What I really think has happened is that Nature sensed a void in the "irritating poster" sector and has filled it.

Blessings be upon you Veterans; blessings also upon you Buddhists, Quakers, and Conscientious Objectors.

With goodwill to all,
M

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:21 pm

Quote @ mvhplank

What I really think has happened is that Nature sensed a void in the "irritating poster" sector and has filled it.

Yes, congratulations Erik.

antstastegood · Post by **antstastegood** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:42 pm

Cranberry wrote:
I am SICK AND TIRED of my age being brought up in everything to make it seem as though I am a complete imbecile who knows nothing. antstastegood and others on this board are younger than me or my age. Do they constantly get picked apart based on their age? No. Because they agree with the Bush Admininstration. Stop it.

I think maybe the reason I don't get picked on much is that I generally stay the heck out of political discussions here, because it inevitably leads to picking. And it's possible that my age (19) is not that widely known. I did jump into one thread head-first a few weeks ago, and we all picked on each other like ravens on a dead cow. Then I realized, that as long as there is some semblance of democracy, there will always be liberals and conservatives, and the ones with enough confidence to discuss their opinion with others are least likely to have their mind changed, ergo there is no point in discussing these things. I do not believe that the Internet is an effective place for converting people to a new political ideology.

So, quit picking on Cran. Cran is just as much entitled to his opinions as you all are to yours. We may deeply disagree, but that just sort of happens in a free country.

Oh, and ErikT, ...16...

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:59 pm

antstastegood wrote:I think maybe the reason I don't get picked on much is that I generally stay the heck out of political discussions here, because it inevitably leads to picking. And it's possible that my age (19) is not that widely known. I did jump into one thread head-first a few weeks ago, and we all picked on each other like ravens on a dead cow. Then I realized, that as long as there is some semblance of democracy, there will always be liberals and conservatives, and the ones with enough confidence to discuss their opinion with others are least likely to have their mind changed, ergo there is no point in discussing these things. I do not believe that the Internet is an effective place for converting people to a new political ideology.

Hehe! You're wise beyond your years!

I've never seen this explained so well, congratulations! I think we live under such pressure, frustration and pented up anger (i'm talking about the cube-dwellers, urban cyber-proletariat, mostly) that from time to time we have to release steam somewhere. Better make a fool of myself on the Internet then going postal on my co-workers.

glauber ( 38 ) who wishes he was 16

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:05 pm

I know one of our not-so-frequent posters just celibrated their 15th birthday.

One thing is for sure -- I will never hear that song the same way again (though it was super easy to learn and I was surprised I had the first 3 notes right by ear).