What's the most difficult thing to learn Irish tinwhistle?

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:23 pm

Rolls, once you know what they're supposed to sound like, are a purely mechanical problem. The usual problem is that the "tap" (or as some say, "pat") note is not fast enough. Sometimes it helps if you half-hole your tap; whatever you do, make is so that it's not a real pure note, just a blip.

To get the rolls right, make sure you practice rolls every day for 10 minutes. After a month you'll be doing them without having to think. That's what i mean when i say it's purely a mechanical problem. Finger gymnastics.

StevieJ · Post by **StevieJ** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:44 pm

fancypiper wrote:Banish Misfortune has tons of rolls.

You mean like this? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:50 pm

StevieJ wrote:
fancypiper wrote:Banish Misfortune has tons of rolls.
You mean like this? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

ROFL!

LimuHead · Post by **LimuHead** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:22 pm

I think the hardest thing about ITM is getting the Irish 'accent' on the whistle. I don't know how to define it, but it can happen without even using rolls. It does come, but it takes determinedness (did I just create a word?) and a whole lot of listening to ITM.

BTW, after upping my whistle CD collection, and listening to the variety of styles found among recording whistlers, I've decided to give myself much more liberty in interpreting tunes, and hence (how many times do you get to use the word 'hence'?) have decided to just let the tunes come out as my own - how I like to hear them. It's been an engaging and rewarding experience.

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:35 pm

Breathing and getting my fingers to do what I want. I'm a drummer and like Mike above I breathe whenever I darned well feel like. Plus, my fingers have minds of their own.

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:51 am

I came to Irish whistle music from a jazz, blues and rock background that included saxophone. I could play that stuff on whistle fluently after about three months of practice. It was just a matter of learning to seal holes rather than hit keys and to half-hole for accidentals.

Years on, the Irish bit is still a challenge. Sliding is no problem, nor is playing with floating intonation—blues and jazz help a lot here. But rolls are tough and getting just the right combination of lightness of touch with swinging rhythmic propulsion is something that will take years to refine. Oh, and finding suitable spots to grab a breath. Improving these things will be a never ending process. I can't imagine myself ever saying it can't be done better.

I've been listening to Irish music on and off for most of my life; the difficulties have nothing to do with a lack of familiarity but rather with training my mouth and fingers not to do what had become habitual.

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:55 am

StevieJ wrote:
fancypiper wrote:Banish Misfortune has tons of rolls.
You mean like this? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Hilarious. Just what I'd been thinking without quite coming up with the right mode of expression.

bjs · Post by **bjs** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:43 am

Where can I find an mp3 of Banish Misfortune so I can slow it down and hear how those rolls ought to sound? I just tried the abc tune finder and find 67 versions. Which one should I be using?

Brian

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:06 am

bjs wrote:Where can I find an mp3 of Banish Misfortune so I can slow it down and hear how those rolls ought to sound? I just tried the abc tune finder and find 67 versions. Which one should I be using?

Brian

I don't know about Banish Misfortune having tons of rolls or even if it should have but this would be as good a version to start with:

http://www.rogermillington.com/tunetoc/ ... illie.html

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:39 am

Oh gawd.. .. ..I'd forgotten that resource. thanks for reminding me, Peter! Quite honestly, it is a bit daunting, and though I know there are great lessons for me there in the playing, its your skill at listening that has me stunned. Thanks again to you and the others for contributing your insights to that site.

Jetboy · Post by **Jetboy** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:45 am

cj wrote:I agree with TS, it's hard to make them sound "right." Also, for me, it's hard to get enough speed built up to properly play reels. People advise us to learn it slowly, play slowly, and speed will come. It did, but only to a point.

Speed is relative. There is no real need to play a tune like it is a race to get to the end like so many session players. It is as though there is something macho about playing it at 100 miles an hour! Try playing some of your favourite jigs or reels really slowly and put in plenty of expressive ornamentation and see how beautiful you can make the tune sound. A classic is the Kerfunten Jig. Another one to try slow is the Hunters House.

cj · Post by cj » Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:04 am

I agree with Jetboy about speed not being necessary, but every time I've gone to hear ITM locally, they played it lightning fast. Apparently it's some sort of standard or whatever, even though to me, while technically impressive, it obscured the melody. L.E. McCullough goes at warp speed on his tutorial CD also. I accepted that I'll never get that fast and don't play in sessions, merely for my own enjoyment. But I think it's kinda like bluegrass--you have to be pretty fast to be considered good, if you're playing professionally. Just MHO from what I've seen, and admittedly I haven't listened to enough ITM to get steeped in it because I lack time, and because I like other types of music as well. And you're right, I need to focus on expression more.

srt19170 · Post by **srt19170** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:50 am

cj wrote: L.E. McCullough goes at warp speed on his tutorial CD also. I accepted that I'll never get that fast and don't play in sessions...

I once brought a CD player with a built-in slow-down mechanism to a whistle class and demonstrated it on LEM's FIST CDs. Experienced players who were listening said "Can you speed up the CD? The problem with McCullough's CDs are that he plays too slowly." I was flabbergasted at the time, but over the last few years I've sort of come to see what they mean.

On rolls, I can't claim to be a master -- I rarely use ornamentation -- but at the risk of being repetitive I'll recommend Brother Steve's tutorial:

http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/b ... ments.html

I particularly like the Rambling Pitchfork example he gives for understanding how a roll fits into a tune.

-- Scott

riasgt · Post by **riasgt** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:29 am

As someone come in to the Irish Music world from the outside, I am having trouble with the definitions of ornamentation. In other music, I'm familiar with trills, grace notes and turns, but I'm having trouble with rolls, flips and other jargon of the music.

Is there a difference in anything other than the word used(ie duration of ornamentation)?

Should my question be a differnt thread?

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:37 am

riasgt wrote:As someone come in to the Irish Music world from the outside, I am having trouble with the definitions of ornamentation. In other music, I'm familiar with trills, grace notes and turns, but I'm having trouble with rolls, flips and other jargon of the music.

Is there a difference in anything other than the word used(ie duration of ornamentation)?

Should my question be a differnt thread?

There most definitely is a difference and as a good a place to start understanding it as any I know is StevieJ's web site whose URL appears in the post immediately preceding yours. My playing background was in blues and jazz and although some things carried over most did not, at least not without substantial modification.