Learning a new tune

MacEachain · Post by **MacEachain** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:40 pm

Hi Folks,
If you're learning a new tune would you learn the basic tune and then once you've got it down try to fit in various ornaments, or try to learn it, putting in as many ornaments as you can. (I don't mean over ornamenting, if such a thing exists, thats another discussion) Reasons for or against appreciated.

Cheers, Mac

p.s. Not sure if "Ornament" is the right word, it sounded ok when I was thinking it but it looks a bit weird written down

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:16 pm

I'd recommend learning a tune in its simplest form, then play it with some stylistically appropriate ornamentation it once you have it mastered.

However, I'd not get too hung up with "ornamented vs. non-ornamented" versions.

Cheers,

Michael

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:34 pm

Mac, find the tune in ten different books and you'll find ten different "simple" versions of the tune. Its worth it to run through them all to appreciate the differences. Then try to guess which version is the original, and which versions are actually variations. I'm not kidding. It can give you a better appreciation of the tune, plus give you options on your own variations. Ornaments come afterward.

djm

marcpipes · Post by **marcpipes** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:37 pm

Don't be afraid to drop ornaments if they are slowing you down or giving you frustration. It's better to get the melody down and a good solid performance. You can decorate it and make it your own over time after you have it learned.
Marc

vcolby · Post by **vcolby** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:41 pm

Good question,

I struggle with that a lot, but have come up with a system for learning songs:

- Learn the song legatto, slowly and cleanly
- Add the simpler roles and crans
- Add triplets and pops
- Add vibratos
- Play with variations

I ensure that my legatto version is clean for the sessions (where most of the ornaments get lost) and a tight-fingered version of the song for playing solo or just with a guitar.

"I Buried My Wife and Danced On Her Grave" is a great song for the progression above.

Novice Piper

j.hohl.kennedy · Post by **j.hohl.kennedy** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:34 pm

djm wrote:Mac, find the tune in ten different books and you'll find ten different "simple" versions of the tune. Its worth it to run through them all to appreciate the differences. Then try to guess which version is the original, and which versions are actually variations. I'm not kidding. It can give you a better appreciation of the tune, plus give you options on your own variations. Ornaments come afterward.

djm

Personally, I like to learn tunes off of my teacher. They come with a variety of ornaments and he teaches me variations as well. And, why does writing it down in a book make it an original? I think that's one of the dangers of writing down an aural tradition is that people seem to think that the "real" or "original" tune is the one trascribed, where it could just be a variation of the tune. I think that can be dangerous.

My 2 bits.

*Jonathan*

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:10 am

I'd say learn any tune (version) you really like and are able to play.
All those variations will come automatically as you have played the tune "to bits" and it's time to put something new in.

elbogo · Post by **elbogo** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 4:21 am

Hi, Mac, sounds like you're at the same spot I'm at(?)... so, excellent question. Plus, good responses.

There's a nice little tune called Fanny Power in the Heather Clarke book, near the end... I think right before the finger charts, and the tune collection. It has examples of vibrato, and some good grace notes and ornamentation. I've been playing it every night, which is helping a lot, with some basic playing execises. It's a good beginners 'example' tune, I think.

Jeff

Thorpe · Post by **Thorpe** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:30 am

I find that when im learning a new tune, as i play other instruments, i can hear where the ornaments should go and just slow the tune down enough to get the ornaments at the start so i dont have learn the tune twice. As adding ornaments adds up to learning a new tune.

Dan

djm · Post by **djm** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:29 am

Thorpe wrote:adding ornaments adds up to learning a new tune

Sorry, but what you seem to be saying is that you are hard-coding your ornaments. Your variations and ornaments should not be the same each time you play the tune. Just play the tune, and throw in different variations and ornaments each time you play it as you are able.

djm

MacEachain · Post by **MacEachain** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:55 am

Hi Folks,
thanks for the response, much appreciated. My situation is remarkably similar to jhol's

jhohl wrote: Personally, I like to learn tunes off of my teacher. They come with a variety of ornaments and he teaches me variations as well. *Jonathan*

I get a tune from my teacher which I record, he plays it as he would normally (taking into account that he may vary it slightly depending on how he feels) only slower. I then learn it by ear putting in the gracenotes that I can play and pick out. The next lesson he may point out some of what he's doing and get me to add it and so on. The tune I've been given to work on is "Merrily Dance the Quakers Wife and Merrily Dance the Quaker" which goes up to 2nd8 B, and covers cranns, rolls (top hand and bottom hand), cuts, taps, slaps and triplets so far.

Cheers, Mac

Chadd · Post by **Chadd** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:49 pm

Here is how I like to go about learning a new tune. First I find a recording I like (preferably several versions if I can) and listen to it over several days to get the tune into my head. Then I slow it down and loop it on the computer so my fingers can learn it on the chanter. I try to pick up as much of the familiar ornamentation at the slow speed as I can, but if anything new gives me trouble I leave it out for the time being. Once I can play the basic tune on my own, then I take it to my esteemed teacher who can critique my playing and show me additional ornamentation and variations. Most importantly, he can point out things I"m doing that may be hindering my playing, many of which I may be unaware. This way, the one-on-one time with my teacher isn't wasted getting the basics of the tune into my ear and fingers, which can take me hours.

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:49 am

I usually feed a tune into my computer and slow it down to be in tune with my B fife. If it was in D originally it will now be nice and slow.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:06 am

Kevin,
If you use your computer like this, there is a package called Amazing Slow Downer, which I use a little. It's at www.ronimusic.com (I think), but it allows you to slow down passages, change key etc.

Cheers, Keith

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:59 am

I use and highly recommend the shareware program "Transcribe!" for slowing down tunes without changing the pitch. It can also pitch shift without slowing down as well as do minor tuning adjustments. Supports both .wav and .mp3 as input sources. It can also write out the pitch shifted or slowed down versions to a file. I've run it on a wide variety of systems, from old 166 MHz laptops running Win95 to Xeons running XP, there is also a Mac version available:

http://www.seventhstring.demon.co.uk/xscribe/index.html

For example, currently, I'm learning "By the River of Gems" from a recording I made of Brian McNamara at Miltown-Malbay. He plays it on his C set. Using Transcribe! I created 6 new versions from my recording:

1) Key of C, tuning corrected to concert
2) Key of C 75% speed
3) Key of B full speed
4) Key of B 75% speed
5) Key of D full speed
6) Key of D 75% speed

I then write the resulting files to an audio CD, now I have something I can use to learn the tune on my B or concert set anywhere. Of course, if I'm at the computer I can just use Transcribe! to do the pitch shifting in realtime.

This is the most powerful tool I know for learning tunes.

Cheers,

Michael