How to spice up C nat

ElAdrel · Post by **ElAdrel** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:55 am

Howdy,
I am trying to find ways of making C natural sound more interesting, particularly when playing crotchets or dotted crotchets. I have tried playing normal rolls but they don't sound especially great. 'Rakish Paddy' and 'Pipe on the Hob' are 2 tunes which would benefit from some spicing up on 'C'. I particularly like what Johnny Doran used to do on 'Rakish' but I can't quite get the same effect!
'Cheers' in advance for any suggestions.

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:04 am

What do you consider "interesting"? You can get different vibrato using the A or G. You can break the note up by tapping with the back D. You can vary the note by playing something else like a triplet or back stitching.

djm

Paul Reid · Post by **Paul Reid** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:11 am

You can also "push" through the back D. Debbie Quigley does this quite often -- pop the back D quickly and almost instantly remove the index finger off the C - gives you a b-dah kind of sound. It might be easier to do with a C#, but it's fun to practise!

Cheers,

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:42 am

Off the top of my head, the things I use to vary the C:

1) Play it on the leg
2) Play it off the leg modulating the pitch with the left index in a partial closed state
3) Vibrato with the second or third finger of the right hand
4) Cut into from D
5) Try every fingering you can think of, both on and off the leg. Its been my experience that each chanter has its optimum C fingering, depending on whether you want good intonation, lots of "nyahh" ease of integration into a moving passage, etc.
6) If you have a C key, see what that buys you in the first octave, even though its really there primarily for the second octave C
7) Toss in a triplet that includes the C
8) Try a C#

Cheers,

Michael

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:51 am

A roll on C natural is actually quite easy and effective but there's loads of other things you can try as welll, some of them mentioned above.

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:33 pm

Lately I've been trying to bend the Cnat up by sliding off the back D a little. It takes lots of control to do, but what else is new? I can never go anywhere with a "piper's C" - bending up from a B - coming from A, for instance, say in the reel the Yellow Tinker - I can never get the note bent upwards much when starting with just the cross fingering. I've never heard of anyone doing this, do any real pipers bend the C like that?
How does Ronan Browne bend the C in that reel, or any other tune? His C is the most disturbing I've ever heard, sounds like the reed's being tortured.

vcolby · Post by **vcolby** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:49 pm

I get a nice clean doublet or triplet on the Cnat by quickly "pipping" the A then F fingers (AFA for the triplet). It is a nice legatto way of cutting the Cnat.

You can also fake a slur down from back D by going from D to C# and slowly roll the F finger off. Takes practice, but after about 500 tries, it works well.

Virgil

gregorygraham · Post by **gregorygraham** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:55 pm

I'm surprised you think C natural is uninteresting. That being said, I think Paul Reid and I must have been in the same room when Debbie Quigley suggested spicing up the C natural in "Pipe on the Hob" in the manner described by Paul. I spoke to Robbie Hannan about his use of C natural in the same tune when he was in Toronto in '02. I didn't understand what he meant because there was a lot of talking going on in the bar, but I suspect it was something only slightly more complex than what Debbie Quigley recommended be done with the note in "Pipe on the Hob".

Paul Reid · Post by **Paul Reid** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:30 am

I'm glad you remembered the name of that tune Greg, I was thinking it was Corn on the Cob

eric_smith · Post by **eric_smith** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 1:24 am

ElAdrel wrote:Howdy,
I am trying to find ways of making C natural sound more interesting, particularly when playing crotchets or dotted crotchets.

This has been rattling around in my brain since I first read this post, so I thought I'd chime in.

In my early days of piping, I noticed that there was something Liam O'Flynn quite often did on the C, especially in recordings from the early seventies. It can be heard repeatedly on An Phis Fhliuch and, I believe, Humours of Ballyloughlin, Queen of the Rushes, among other recordings (particularly of jigs). It turns out this was merely 'splitting' a crotchet C with the D, followed by the A quaver ("die yah dum" or |c {d} c A| )

This remarkably simple bit provides a way to prevent C natural from being lifeless or from getting too much attention. I would recommend following Mr. O'Flynn's lead and using this as the bread-n-butter dotted crotchet C in jigs, and save the Willie Clancy 'nyahs' for special emphasis

Speaking of which, as Pat Mitchel describes in DMWC, WC's C slide starts with a 'd' gracenote. To emulate the effect of Mr. Clancy's world-renowned C slide, I stiffen and straighten the C and F fingers, and continue to curl them up, keeping contact with the sides of the fingerholes, and at the same time, raising the chanter off the leg slightly for the swell. The overall result is a sharp bite, followed by an steady shift into pitch as the chanter is replaced on the knee. Note also that while you are half-holing the C and F notes, it is a muffled, flat tone that opens up into a clear, emancipated C natural.

Eric

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:13 am

You could "bend" the c nat by holding your top index finger against the C# hole, sliding it away, then sliding off the bottom index finger.

That should "torture" the C nat pretty good.

Mine sounds so good, I tend not to "decorate" it in any way.

TnWhistler · Post by **TnWhistler** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 1:11 pm

BTW I have always wondered, what is a hob, and why would I want t put my pipe on it?

Timmy

eric_smith · Post by **eric_smith** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 1:49 pm

a hob is like a shelf on a fireplace.
the pipe refers to a cricket or some such thing.

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:07 pm

When I was wee the hob was down by the fire and was used for cooking..today the term is used for a cooking ring on a gas fire for eg.
The pipe in my experience was my grandads main pleasure ie.filling the kitchen with tobacco smoke..My gran used to place the pipe down by the hob whenever he was finished work to warm up.I asked her why she did this."Och it makes the damn thing easier to choke us all"was her reply...presumably a warm pipe is easier to light ,don't know ..any pipe smokers out there?anyways both she and I used to wish for the thing to catch alight and vanish in a pile of ash,but of course it never did.
Uilliam

tompipes · Post by **tompipes** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:00 pm

a hob is like a shelf on a fireplace.
the pipe refers to a cricket or some such thing

Piobaire is Irish for piper and also cricket. Apparently in days gone by, crickets would rest in the ashes of a fire place in winter.
Thus the pipe on the hob.

Tommy

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