BMW arrives

Mark Cantor · Post by **Mark Cantor** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:45 pm

Late last year or early this year I asked for a comparison of Grinter and Olwell keyless flutes, and my favorite comparison was something like "Olwells are like driving a Hummer and Grinters are like driving a BMW." I went with the Grinter blackwood keyless and it arrived in just less than 8 months. Michael and Helen Grinter were great to work with! My playing is quickly improving with this gem. It is easy to drive, achieves a well rounded and firm low D, is very responsive, cuts through at sessions, just sounds incredible and looks mahvelous with the acanthus ivy patterned silver rings. Most importantly, I'm very happy!! So thanks to those who contributed to my sensory-deprived decision-making process (asking for opinions in lieu of being able to see, hear, and feel flutes by different makers)!! I whole-heartily agree with David Levine who, earlier this month, advised someone else: "buy it and don't worry!"

I did... and I didn't.

Mark

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:01 am

Yah, I know, but where are the pictures!!!!!!!!!!!

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:35 am

Mark Cantor wrote:"Olwells are like driving a Hummer and Grinters are like driving a BMW."

Wow. I couldn't disagree more. I think Olwells and Grinters are both very sweet flutes, but they are tuned differently. Hamiltons are a lot more like Hummers than Olwells are, and even those aren't. Man, I wonder who said that.

spittle · Post by **spittle** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:42 am

I seem to remember that comparo awhile back too, but I think it was contrasting an Olwell Pratten vs. Grinter's R&R. The Olwell was capable of that rough, growling sound, which obviously has more to do with it's Pratten design rather than simply being made by Olwell. I'm sure a Pratten from Michael would bark with the best of 'em.

Still - I'm sure your flute is amazing Mark! Yes, pictures please. I've been wanting to see a keyless with the ancathus rings for some time (since that exact configuration is on my short list

).

Regards,
- Ryan

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:14 am

We run into many problems on this list when flutes are compared to automobiles (if that's what a Hummer is; I think it was Conan O'Brien who said he thought about getting a Hummer, but he figured that getting a tattoo on his forehead that says "I need attention" is much cheaper).
My personal breakdown of the different flute makers' flutes have more to do with what you want them for. Flutes like Hammy's are tweaked to play Irish music very specifically, in it's loudest, session-worthy form, though it is in no way unable to play sweetly. Olwell's Prattens are not that much different, purpose-wise, but the tone (to my ear) has a more compressed sound that some prefer and others don't, which tends to come off as more sweet than a Hammy. Grinter's Rudalls (if he makes Prattens?) are more akin to the 19th c. flutes the flutes are based on, and therefore perhaps a bit less ballsy but perhaps a bit more tonally interesting.
All of these are great flutes in their own way and entirely capable of playing anything you are comfortable playing on them.
Not ONE of these flutes uses gasoline.
Gordon

David Levine · Post by **David Levine** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:15 pm

Gordon said: "Grinter's Rudalls (if he makes Prattens?) are more akin to the 19th c. flutes the flutes are based on, and therefore perhaps a bit less ballsy."

"19th. c. Rudall flutes" is quite a wide catch-basket. 19th. c. Rudall.Rose/Carte designs range from rather small finger-holes and bores, to quite large finger-holes, embouchure holes, and big bores. Also, while a Grinter may resemble a Rudall, an Olwell is clearly an Olwell, and not a Pratten. Some Rudalls have great volume and rival the power of Prattens.

In our search for the perfect flute it's best to remember that a flute does not make the player. True, one doesn't want a flute that one has to struggle with, and there are differences between makers -- we all have our favorites.

We Americans tend to worry more about the equipment than about the technique. I have some great flutes, some as good as Matt Malloy's, but I still can't play like he does (...duh). I have a great old Rudall and I can't play like the Divine Ms. McEvoy either. It's interesting, isn't it, that the great players play instruments made by such a wide range of makers. Even they can't agree on who makes the perfect flute.

So shut-up and practise

Dana · Post by **Dana** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:47 pm

David:

I would, if you'd just send my flute.

Dana

Whistlin'Dixie · Post by **Whistlin'Dixie** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:03 pm

I'd just like to have a flute like my old '90 Dodge Caravan!!

Mary

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:15 pm

I feels that my McGee is like a tractor, the key work is really solid, there is nothing about it that is fragile, and when played its like a tank.

Dana · Post by **Dana** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:34 pm

I still grieve over a silver Boehm flute I once owned, made by a great guy, Jack Moore. I called it the 4 wheel drive of flutes. It would get you anywhere you wanted to go, but you might have a rough ride getting there.

Dana

BigTex · Post by **BigTex** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:46 pm

Jessie - you look too happy in that picture. Who is that lucky fellow? Not our own Mr. L. Bookbinder I presume.

Best wishes and keep smilin!

Tex

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:58 am

eilam wrote:I feels that my McGee is like a tractor, the key work is really solid, there is nothing about it that is fragile, and when played its like a tank.

A very musical description, eilam!

Gordon

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:10 am

David Levine wrote:Gordon said: "Grinter's Rudalls (if he makes Prattens?) are more akin to the 19th c. flutes the flutes are based on, and therefore perhaps a bit less ballsy."

"19th. c. Rudall flutes" is quite a wide catch-basket. 19th. c. Rudall.Rose/Carte designs range from rather small finger-holes and bores, to quite large finger-holes, embouchure holes, and big bores. Also, while a Grinter may resemble a Rudall, an Olwell is clearly an Olwell, and not a Pratten. Some Rudalls have great volume and rival the power of Prattens.

In our search for the perfect flute it's best to remember that a flute does not make the player. True, one doesn't want a flute that one has to struggle with, and there are differences between makers -- we all have our favorites.

We Americans tend to worry more about the equipment than about the technique. I have some great flutes, some as good as Matt Malloy's, but I still can't play like he does (...duh). I have a great old Rudall and I can't play like the Divine Ms. McEvoy either. It's interesting, isn't it, that the great players play instruments made by such a wide range of makers. Even they can't agree on who makes the perfect flute.

So shut-up and practise

Agree with you completely, David; if you read my paragraph(s) carefully (other than my 19th c. description), you'd see that I was saying precisely that.
As for that description, yes, there was an enormous variety in 19th C. flutes, but what I was getting at was the flavor and purpose of 19th c. flutes, which I think Grinter comes closest to (among the makers listed). Both very good makers, Hammy and Olwell, don't seem to go after the sound variations and colors more appropriate to 19th c. flutes (including the "real" Prattens). Hammy, in particular, makes a hybrid Pratten that is made decidedly to play Irish and folk music (by his description, as well as IMO), and very, very well. But I think it lacks something when playing non-Irish/folk music; this is, of course, dependent on the player, but the tonal colors of the flute, IMO, do not match (for worse, and better, depending) the sound and colorations of an original Pratten. Some say the old flutes are simply flawed, the modern ones improved; I disagree, but what we want out of our flutes changes in time and taste. Hammy and Olwell, to my mind, are of a more modern mind-set, Grinter less so, and therefore my comment.
As for playing rather than purchasing, I couldn't agree more. But as a flute lover and fellow American, David, you own more than your share of flutes, too; it's because you love the things, and not simply because you believe they will, independent of practice and experience, help you play better. Give the rest of us the same respect, okay?
Gordon

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:28 am

BigTex wrote:Jessie - you look too happy in that picture. Who is that lucky fellow? Not our own Mr. L. Bookbinder I presume.

No, that's not Mr. Bookbinder. That's my new husband Dan. Thanks for the good wishes.

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:43 am

A very musical description, eilam!
Gordon

Your right, the best features of my Pratten are that it has a huge sound, quick response, and is very rugged.
Playing it at home has more to do with keeping me in shape, then with the tonal qualities, for that I play my old restored Nicholson type flute or Boxwood Baroque
eilam.

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