Book Review: 101 Myths of the Bible

[ErikT]

And I see that I was once again beaten to the punch by Jim.

[Walden]

There are some parts which pertain directly to our day... revelation given pertaining to the last days before Christ's Second Coming.

May He come quickly!

Then Joshua spoke to the Lord, in the day that he delivered the Amorrhite in the sight of the children of Israel, and he said before them: Move not O Sun toward Gabaon, nor thou, moon, toward the valley of Ajalon.
And the sun and moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So the sun stood still in the midst of the heaven, and hasted not to go down the space of one day.
-- Joshua 10:12-14

... the world also is stablished that it cannot be moved.
-- Psalm 93:1

... the Earth abideth forever. The Sun also riseth, and the Sun goeth down and hasteth to his place where he arose.
-- Ecclesiastes 1:4-6

These are quite literally correct ways of referring to the earth and heavenly bodies, for a man writing with the earth as his frame of reference, and consistent with common day to day uses of such words as "up" and "down." We are by nature geocentrically oriented, though our present understanding of science shows us a wider frame of reference with regards to the heavenly bodies.

[Zubivka]

Gallileo lived his life in the Church, which was
a center of learning. Take all of that away
and science would not have flourished
as it did.

Ow? It seemed to me, take all of that away, the Arabs', Jews' and Hindus' sciences would have done about the same, like all right, in these times.

[antstastegood]

<a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 57.htm">An Article</a> that shows that ants have not evolved in 100 million years.

Should be thought provoking for some of the participants in this monster thread.


--ants--

[Walden]

<a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 57.htm">An Article</a> that shows that ants have not evolved in 100 million years.

Should be thought provoking for some of the participants in this monster thread.


--ants--

I can verify that you haven't evolved since joining the forum, anyway.

[Zubivka]

<a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 57.htm">An Article</a> that shows that ants have not evolved in 100 million years.

Should be thought provoking for some of the participants in this monster thread.

Antshyte: they got first coated in chocolate only twenty years ago. In Paris--this for trivia, not to be chauvinistic. Of anyone, you with such nick should know.

[peteinmn]

Sunnywindo

Sara, I envy your faith, I really do. I have no axe to grind with the LDS church. In fact, I have read the Book of Mormon. You seem to state the dogma of your church clearly and correctly.

However, while it's true 1820 isn't exactly ancient history, in terms of virtually any aspect of our understanding of either the "hard" or "soft" sciences or the complexities of the world today as apposed to then, 1820 seems far removed.

Yep, there are indeed a lot of good things in the Bible that have relevance today. Same goes for the Islamic, Hindu and Buddist scriptures. But, my point was that, most important of all is not what they contain but what they lack. IMHO they don't provide much in the way of clear guidance in the complexity of today's world much less provide clear evidence of their claim to "the truth". If any one of the major faith scriptures does so, why is there endless debate and endless further fracturing into more denominations. The LDH church began in 1820 as yet another stab at "the truth." We may have another division of the Episcapol Church in the near future because of a differance of opinion about "the truth." The process goes on and while all the churches contain some truth I have difficulty believing that any one of them has a grasp of "the truth."

Finally, you say that life isn't supposed to be a cakewalk. Reminds me of a Lutheran pastor I knew in my childhood who used the expression "we are placed here not to enjoy ourselves but to strive to achieve salvation and pass through this veil of tears." Fine, if it's all some kind of test the least I would expect from God is a level playing field. Why then do some crappy folks seem to sail trough life fat, dumb and happy while others get cancer and have really bad stuff happen to them. Do you really want me to believe that God tortures children in Africa with AIDS as some kind of test? How does your "agency" or free will help those kids?

As I said, I envy your faith and truly respect your beliefs. I'm glad it works for you. However, until God explains himself to me it's just won't do for me.

[cowtime]

All things happen for ultimate good, and to the glory of GOD. I have personally found this to be true.....more than once.

How about Proverbs for starters- I've found plenty in there to tell me what I need to know in the way of practical advice.

Ultimately, people are people. They may live in a different time or culture, but good old human nature is constant.

[Dale]

Wow look at this mess.. Religion, Politics, and Science all in one thread.

Maybe we can work sex in somehow....

[Dale]

Hey. How 'bout those Yankees?

[herbivore12]

Maybe we can work sex in somehow....

and then Dale wrote:

Hey. How 'bout those Yankees?

So suddenly I'm thinking Dale has a thing for pinstripes. As well as for mbiras and whistles and discourses on teenage drivers.

This place gets kinkier all the time. . .

--Aaron

[Dale]

So, Bob is parking his car and he looks out on the street just in time to see a truck break down and the driver get out of it. Bob asks the truck driver if there is anything he can do to help and the truck driver says, well, I hate to ask you, but my cargo is nine penguins and I'm supposed to take them to the zoo. I don't know how long I'm going to be broken down here so is there anyway I can ask you to take these penguins to the zoo?

So, Bob is up for an adventure and agrees. Somehow he manages to squeeze nine penguins into his subcompact. He drives off.

Later, the truck is fixed and the driver is heading out of town. But then he spots Bob walking down the sidewalk with the nine penguins following behind him. He pulls over and confronts Bob. Hey, he says, I asked you to take these nine penguins to the zoo! Bob says, Yeah! I did already. We had a great time. Now we're gonna catch a movie!

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

I have lots of moments like this: Yesterday, I was watching the news and they showed video of those conjoined twins that were separated recently. The video showed them still conjoined at the top of their heads. As much as I can talk about the Problem of Evil and, you know, Mysterious Ways, etc., at times like when watching that video I think, "you know, put somebody in charge who knows what he's doing."

Also consider this fellow's tragic plight:



Nyuk, nyuk.
Christianity's track record is pretty amazing. The Donation of Constantinople was a good one, a document forged in the 6th century purportedly demonstrating that Constantine, the first Christian Roman emperor, had donated Rome to the church. It even was illustrated in art over the centuries; it was only debunked in the Renaissance. The church's treatment of Gailieo falls under the same shameful heading; but in their defense, you try going against the grain of any entrenched ideology in such a manner. This is the same church that found itself irrevocably split into its Eastern and Western halves over, among other issues, one word in the Nicene Creed. And don't forget that Gailieo was a bit of a big mouth as well, to our eventual benefit. Certainly he would have been canonized if he weren't a borderline heretic!
Any religion past or present will display ignoble characteristics such as these, to our hopefully enlightened sensibilities. Let them as be; as Gailieo said (apocryphally, but it's still a great line): "And yet, it moves..."

[Sunnywindo]

peteinmn, I can see you don't have any axe to grind, and that you are sincere and just saying what you are best able to understand and accept at this time, and that's okay. I guess to me, what I have learned, what I have read in scripture, what I learn through prayer and the promptings of the spirit, and what I continue to learn does help me when dealing with life's complexities and I do find clear guidance in ever so many things.

There are generally two reasons that I can think right off that new churches are created. One, the church they have held to changes and becomes corrupted, and a member or group of members consider the changes wrong and morally unacceptable, and a division occurs or they leave to form another sect. Then, there are those who don't like what the church they are familiar with are teaching, because they themselves are doing things wrong in their lives and what they hear in church picks their soul, yet they still feel like they should have church in their lives, and unwilling to bring their lives in line with another church, they instead go out and begin their own, one that makes them feel the way they want to, one that supports what they want. Yes, there will continue to be fragmenting as long as people have differing opinions, goals, and agendas... will continue until the end when Christ returns and a few basic things are straightened out I suppose. Then you mention that the LDS church was started as another stab at "the truth"... though I don't see it that way. I see it as God the Father and Jesus Christ, literally and truly restoring the fullness of the gospel themselves.... Not man deciding "this is what we will do" but God revealing Himself to a humble, sincere faithful young man of His own choosing and saying "this is what I want you to do for Me". I see a prophet of God on earth today who continues to recieve direct revalation from God. I guess I see a difference, though those who find themselves unable to believe that God and Christ revealed themselves to and directly guided Joseph Smith in establishing the LDS church will quite understandably view things differently.

I don't have every answer. If I had all the answers, I'd be like God, and I'm certainly far from that. In fact, last I checked, I was quite human and still capable of making all sorts of mistakes. I guess that's where faith comes in. I could make some comments based on what I do understand. I hope I can explain in a way that makes even a glimmer of sense, as it's a bit hard for me to explain. We all have things we will go through in life. Some happen as consequences to earlier choices, and some just happen because they are part of being mortal.

The crappy person who sails though life... well, perhaps part of their test was to see if they would bother to reach beyond themselves and do some good... but if they chose to stay crappy people wasting all their time on their own selfish desires, well they failed that test big. If the person who has terrible trials in life... sickness, cancer, etc. Well, perhaps there is something to be learned. Patience, symapthy, etc. Perhaps that person will be a good influence and a means of teaching something to someone else. Perhaps there is a test within the experience... to see if a person will hold to their faith or turn and curse God when times get tough. Perhaps any number of things. Some trials are highly visable to others... some are not. But we all have things we have to face... some do seem to have it "easier" than others. I always liked the saying though that goes something like "don't judge another unless you have walked a mile in their shoes" or something to that effect. You never know what burden another might be silently bearing that you will never see.

Yes, some things happen just because they happen. Perhaps some things were even meant to happen. Others we bring upon ourselves as a consequence of our choices. The woman who knowingly engages in risky sexual behavoir and catches AIDS, well that's a consequense. Sadly, we can also inflict some of the consequences of our actions onto innocent people. The woman with AIDS get pregnant and has a child with AIDS. God doesn't like to see suffering like that... but he cannot remove all the consequences anymore than he's going to force us all to behave. Yet in the face of such terrible suffering, I hope that perhaps something still can still come of it. Perhaps the sibling who sees their baby brother and mother die from AIDS will as a result choose to be careful to not engage in behavoir that puts him at a higher risk of AIDS like his mother did and go on to have a wonderful and healthy life and family. Perhaps someone will be moved by compassion at the suffering as they never would have otherwise... and do some good in life by serving others and trying to help them. And the innocent who suffer, such as children with AIDS you mentioned... I personally believe that they will be blessed extra in the life to come for what hell they had to go through here... that God will wipe away all their tears and bring them peace and joy beyond measure.

I've tried to explain the best I can by my understanding... yet I admit I still have much to learn. Life is full of continual learning, even as a member within the church. I expect I'll still be learning more of God's gopsel when I'm nintey and nine. I do have faith that God has His purposes, and that someday it will all be made crystal clear. The circles of our lives touch so many others... things are ever so much more complex than what we can see from where we stand. You never know whose heart you might touch... even with the most simple of things such as a smile.

Thanks for the interesting discusion. It's stirred up my mind thinking, reminded me of some things I haven't thought of for a while... though for tonight I need to get some sleep.

I sincerely hope you someday find the answers you are looking for.

Peace be with you....
Sara (wishing she had the gift of concise expression like her sweetheart does)

(No life is not a cakewalk... there are always some thorns, yet among the thorns are often many beautiful roses of joy along the way if we will but pause to look. If we weren't meant to have some enjoyment along the way then why is there music, why do flowers smell so sweet, why do birds sing, why can the birth of a child bring so much joy and happiness to a family? Guess I rather disagree with that Lutheran pastor you mentioned.)

[Sunnywindo]

*Pauses to notice the sudden appearence of penguins in this thread... thinks now how great they would look if they were all dancing in unison.*

Sara (imagining dancing penguins)