OT: please sign this petition (if you're so inclined)

[Rando7]

I understand that it'd make things easier if you could just ignore them, but I think it's dangerous to ignore a monster that's trying to bite you.

I hear what you're saying, but what Phelps wants is publicity and attention, and he seems to be getting it. While his right to express his views is guaranteed by the constitution, we have no responsibility to listen or provide him a platform to speak from.

[Jack]

I agree with Nanohedron.

[Walden]

It was neither Phelps, nor his misguided rhetoric, that killed this young man.

Of course, Walden, but I submit that such is not the point. Phelps has taken a murder and shanghaied it for his agenda.

He hasn't made as many friends for his cause as enemies, methinks.

[Jack]

Quote @ Walden

He hasn't made as many friends for his cause as enemies, methinks.

The fact that he's made friends at all wanting such a monument disturbs me, but doesn't surprise me.

[Nanohedron]

It was neither Phelps, nor his misguided rhetoric, that killed this young man.

Of course, Walden, but I submit that such is not the point. Phelps has taken a murder and shanghaied it for his agenda.

He hasn't made as many friends for his cause as enemies, methinks.

I believe you're right on this. I still think that having our say is very necessary even so. As for any issues of giving him attention, that's inevitable. Flies get my attention before I crush them, too.

[LeeMarsh]

I understand that it'd make things easier if you could just ignore them, but I think it's dangerous to ignore a monster that's trying to bite you.

I hear what you're saying, but what Phelps wants is publicity and attention, and he seems to be getting it. While his right to express his views is guaranteed by the constitution, we have no responsibility to listen or provide him a platform to speak from.

We also have the responsibility, as citizens, to speak out against this type of hate mongering. If he and his hundred are free to establish a platform for his hate; we and our hundreds-of-thousands are free to establish a thousand platforms against hate.

If the monument was installed, my daughter, suggested covering it with a bio-hazard tent, with the appropriate warnings. She'd let Mr. Phelps waste his resources in litigation to have the tent removed. He'd have to prove his display was not a hazard to public health or safety. Given Laramies history, she doesn't think Mr. Phelps would have a chance in hell to find a jury to agree with him.

I don't know if it would work, but I like the idea of taking his stand for hate and overwhelming with a stand against hate. That would actually say more about the triumph of good.

[Rando7]

If the monument was installed, my daughter, suggested covering it with a bio-hazard tent, with the appropriate warnings. She'd let Mr. Phelps waste his resources in litigation to have the tent removed. He'd have to prove his display was not a hazard to public health or safety. Given Laramies history, she doesn't think Mr. Phelps would have a chance in hell to find a jury to agree with him.

I don't know if it would work, but I like the idea of taking his stand for hate and overwhelming with a stand against hate. That would actually say more about the triumph of good.

From what I have read on this, the Casper City Council is ready to go to court on this issue. I am no lawyer, but I think Phelps' contention that since the 10 Commandments is posted there, then ALL religious monuments must be allowed regardless of whether the community wants them or not, is a weak one. The monument would still have to meet community standards of acceptability.

I doubt very much this monument will ever be placed, but if it is then your daughter would be breaking the law by unilaterally covering the monument with a hazard tent, and I doubt the health department would agree with her. While civil disobedience is often admired, this would probably produce a spectacle like the recent one in Alabama ala Judge Moore, giving a hateful pissant preacher the exposure he craves.

[Nanohedron]

Point taken about civil disobedience, Rando7, but I say that exposure, if not civil disobedience, is completely necessary in addressing problems like this if they are to be undone. How else to do this? Sweep it under a rug? Do I wait until nightfall to walk about in my back yard just because I don't like the look of all the dog turds I haven't cleaned up? I'll still step in them sooner or later.

I too believe that this proposed statue hasn't a snowball's chance in hell. But if I had children to raise and educate, I would definitely want them to know about this and what it implies as soon as they had a sense of right and wrong. You can't defend yourself or others if you don't know your foe and his ways.

BTW, my parents kept me informed of the world as best they could, and I'm indebted to them for it.

[Jack]

Rando7, I'll never ignore something as serious as this. There's no way I could just sit back and let it happen. It's not as though I can pack my bags and go to Wyoming (or I most definately would), but ignoring a cancer such as this doesn't make it go away; it lets it grow, unaffected.

[StewySmoot]

This guy is definitely a nut-job small potato

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... xpose3.htm



and he will get easily dismissed but he is gets far too much attention to ignore. His mission of hate will find their mark, unfortunately, with other hate-mongerers. This is the seamier side of Free Speech (and the Internet) that presents a real difficulty to me.

People like him need to be fought on any front.

[serpent]

It's very important to me.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mrphelps/petition.html

Thank you.

Cran, I signed your petition. All rhetoric about ignoring him and he'll go away is wrong. He won't go away unless someone makes him go away. The petition won't do that, but it's a symbol to throw at him, telling him that decent people believe he's a hatemonger and wrong. It also tells others who might sign, that they are right to do so. To combat this Satan-who-takes-the-guise-of-God, we need to stand together.

Sign the petition, people. It's the right thing to do.

serpent

[jim_mc]

I signed the petition. Not that anyone should be surprised by that.

What bothers me is that people like this Phelps character feel the need to tear down, rather than build up, in God's name. I have my problems with the Roman Catholic church, but the beatification of Mother Theresa of Calcutta earlier today was a wonderful thing. This was a person who dedicated her life to raising others up. She saw that even the lowest of the low and the poorest of the poor were created in God's image and deserving of our love. That's the kind of role model the world really needs.

[lilymaid]

It's very important to me.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mrphelps/petition.html

Thank you.

This gives me yet another occasion to reiterate something I believe very strongly. Mean people go to hell. I can’t say that Mr. Phelps won’t repent or something before he dies, but I think the single worst thing a person can do is be unkind to another. If Matthew Shepherd did go to hell, God was very sad about it. However, I tend to think Mr. Phelps is much more likely to have gone to hell for not having compassion toward one of God’s beloved children.

Repressed sexuality and Puritan intolerance has often been a hallmark of the faith.

I think most religions place strict rules upon adherents' sexual conduct. I’ve never really understood how some people think homosexual misconduct is worse than heterosexual misconduct, however. I think rules of some sort are good and necessary, though. Whether one chooses traditional Christian rules or others is none of my concern, but I think in a healthy society there need to be some rules.

Of course, I am thoroughly opposed to "Puritan intolerance." One thing a lot of people fail to realize is that the Puritans were kind of a crazy fringe group and were viewed as such by other Christians.

[jim stone]

On the legal part:
The council will vote no;
Phelp's law suit hasn't a hope.
The 10th Circuit Court ruling that expressions
of other religious and political views
must also be allowed clearly doesn't cover
a monument commemorating a murdered
individual's being sent to hell for being
a homo. This is being done for publicity.
As to whether one ignores or responds,
probably the gay community is
best positioned to make that call. Best

[anniemcu]

...It just really distresses me to see people killed "in the name of God", to see people picket funerals, etc., and I can, needless to say, relate very directly to all this.

I am always amazed at the lack of trust and respect these so-called 'men of god' (note that I use a small, generic 'god' here - it would be sacrelige to associate them with G_D) put in G_D - they feel that *they* must meet out the so-called justice, and do what *they say* G_D wants done. That *they* have G_D's permission, nay... instruction, to hate. What utter blasphemy!

They obviously have no genuine association with G_d or any of G_D's teachings.

May they someday be enlightened, or at least overcome.