Quiet Whistles

thesackrat · Post by **thesackrat** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 1:35 pm

Also the often overlooked _Cooperman_ is very quite. I realize that I "lucked out" when I got mine as it is _ded on_ in tune while most don't seem to be. They are all of $4-$5 and are often found at tourist shops. I keep mine on the stand next to the bed for that middle of the night urge-to-play-a-tune desire. It's that quiet.

CUL (see you later)

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 1:48 pm

eedbjp

All of the above suggestions are good ones based on the experience of each player and these whistles all have features that are commendable. Whistles of wood or plastic with a decreasing conical bore and a small voicing window will be the most quiet players.

My vote goes to the suggestion of using a "Mute" technique to decrease the volume of any whistle you favor and are used to playing. A Balsa block/putty ball etc. is placed on the labium ramp near the sharp edge and adjusted up or down until you get the amount of muting you desire. In this way you can practice quietly on the same whistle that will echo off the canyons with the "Mute" removed.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 4:06 pm

On 2002-01-06 13:08, JessieK wrote:
Brian, something you didn't mention is the fact that Mack does not have a template, nor does he have preceise measurements. His whistles vary tremendously from one to the next. While one may have a pleasing tone to a particular person's ear, another may not.

And yes, when the whistles were not in tune with themselves, Mack was very accomodating.

Jessie

Jessie,

Just to set the record straight, (not to mention being completely fair to Mack) he DOES in fact use a template for ALL his whistles. I have seen and even used them myself. Yes, his whistle CAN vary tremendously from one to another, but this is due to specific voicing requirements from one CUSTOMER to another.

If you were to see his stock that he sends to the Thom at 'The Whistle Shop', or the tables he sets up at festivals etc., you would notice a very concise pattern to all his work.

I have even seen correspondance between Mack and a most famous whistle player, not just saying: "Thanks for the free whistle bub." and leaving it at that, but praising the quality of his work. I never hesitate to recommend Mack Hoover's whistles as reliable, both in quality, and especially in service.

All my best-

Bri~

P.S. If ULTRA-quiet is truly needed, you may want to write Mack, and ask him about his arrow-shaft whistles! They're as quiet as they come!!!!

TonyaD · Post by **TonyaD** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 4:20 pm

I have a Hoover traditional bore. I find it much easier to play than the narrow bore. Still, it is very quiet and sweet sounding. It's the only one my six-year-old son doesn't complain about (no, I'm not THAT bad a player -- he just thinks they're noisy). I think mine is in tune with itself.

And it is not expensive -- I paid $50 in August. The tweaked Clarke is about $25. I think the Hoover is worth the extra $25.

Mack.Hoover · Post by **Mack.Hoover** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 4:47 pm

Please note that there was a price change that occurred at least a week before this thread was started.
http://users.acsol.net/~mackh/ordering.htm

Mack

"A little praise is a great motivator. Indifference begets indifference. Criticism can cause distress or determination; you can decide which."—Anon.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 5:05 pm

On 2002-01-06 17:06, Brian Lee wrote:
If you were to see his stock that he sends to the Thom at 'The Whistle Shop', or the tables he sets up at festivals etc., you would notice a very concise pattern to all his work.

A friend of mine had a Hoover CPVC d that I really liked. He had gotten it from Thom. I asked Mack to make me two like that one, and at Mack's request, I sent him my friend's whistle. I got back three. One was the original I had sent. The other two were neither like the original nor like each other, and in addition to playing differently (different windows, airways, and blades) they were out of tune with themselves. Again, I will say that Mack was very gracious about taking them back.

Jessie

Paul Patrick · Post by **Paul Patrick** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 5:30 pm

Being likewise in need of a quiet whistle, I too received a Hoover Brass Narrow Bore D(via the Whistle Shop) for Christmas and really am enjoying it immensely. So sweet! It is in tune with itself so far as my (reasonably trained) ear can tell. It's the only whistle I own on which my favorite notes to play are second octave B, A, and G. It's significantly quieter than my other whistles (all cheapos - Gen, Clare, Walton, Clarke Original - I'm quite happy with them but they get a bit loud for apt. living). However, I also find that the Hoover is SO pure the sound sort of goes right through you, which I love but my wife doesn't (she doesn't like high pitched instruments, and I'm learning the whistle - go figure). It also requires quite a bit more breath control than the Generation etc. I haven't played most of the other whistles mentioned on the thread, so I can't compare to them. Cost was $50 as of Xmas.

If you search old threads or the archives (there are links to the archives and to a search function, both somewhere at the top of the page) there are a number of posts on this very topic (ranging from Hoover whistles in particular to various ways of muting whistles in general).

Good luck!
Paul

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 7:05 pm

On 2002-01-06 18:05, JessieK wrote:
...in addition to playing differently (different windows, airways, and blades) they were out of tune with themselves...

Jessie

I actually had the opportunity to play both whistles in question on a visit to Mack's shop. When checked against two different digital tuners, they had no problem playing in tune. I was unable to notice any difference in timbre between them...though I'll admit this may be caused by my lack of an untrained ear.

That being said, some of Mack's whistle are sensative enough to breath pressure that I have a difficult time producing a steady tone. This is not to say the whistles are in any way shape or form defective, or poorly made...quite the contrary. Rather, my own skill level isn't developed enough to play them consistently. Yet anyway!

The bottom line is, Mack always comes through for his customers, and stands behind his work 100%.

Jessie, ya know, Mack can do some pretty cool custom jobs if you like. For example, if (like me perhaps) you happen to favor larger tone hole, or more back-pressure to the windway etc. etc., he can likely create an instrument to suit your playing styles and tastes.

For the record...I am NOT on Mack's payroll!

I just know how much he puts into his work, as I've seen it first-hand, and even tried it a bit myself.

May Dale strike me down if I'm bein' too commercial!

B~

Eldarion · Post by **Eldarion** » Sun Jan 06, 2002 7:14 pm

PS Eldarion the blue-tack trick came from Whistlepeg, if I'm not mistaken, who got it from John Skelton.

Oops my apologies Sue and John!

rpmseattle · Post by **rpmseattle** » Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:28 am

I'd recommend the Hoover as well. I have a brass "quiet" C which sounds great at low volumes...

You can order them through the Whistleshop or from Mack directly...

Robert

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Sat Jan 12, 2002 8:49 am

On 2002-01-06 20:05, Brian Lee wrote:
I actually had the opportunity to play both whistles in question on a visit to Mack's shop. When checked against two different digital tuners, they had no problem playing in tune.

That is impossible. The lowest note on each of them was painfully out of tune with the rest of the notes. Ouch! There are a few possibilities here. Perhaps those were not actually the same whistles. Perhaps the digital tuner was painfully skewed. Or perhaps the whistles had been slightly shortened before you experienced them.

Furthermore, you mentioned that you didn't notice a difference in timbre between them. Well, Brian, that's you, not the whistles. Did you look at the windows on the whistles? Did you notice that they were not the same size?

Also, when I said he didn't use a template, perhaps I used the wrong word. What I meant to convey was that the windway is not at all standardized. It is done randomly, by hand, and is curvy and somtimes messy. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. If whistles are going to have totally different windways and windows from each other, a template for holes is not going to matter so much.

I'm sure Mack is a really nice guy, but if you go overboard here with praise, I feel compelled to set the record straight. Know that.

Jessie

[ This Message was edited by: JessieK on 2002-01-12 10:33 ]

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:37 am

No overboard J.

Just the simple stating of facts that I know. If you're ever out in the direction of Colorado, I can HIGHLY recommend a visit to Mack's shop. It's an eye opener!

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:22 pm

Okay, Jessie certainly doesn't need me to defend her, but I think this is an important topic, so I'm going to weigh in here....

Umm....Brian,

Seriously, no offense to you (or Mack) intended, but I think you're speaking from a lack of experience here: Do you have any idea how many different top whistle and flute maker's shops Jessie has visited? Patcrick Olwell, Chris Abell, Dave Copley, Eugene Lambe, Michael Copeland and Hammy Hamilton.....She's visited each one (and probably others). She's "Talked Shop" with these makers (being a silver smith herself) and even made her very own "Copley" flute while studying flute making with Dave Copley.

Brian, I have no doubt that you are a good player, as several people on the message board have mentioned, but I think you are beyond your area of expertise, and out of your league in discussing whistle making and craftsmanship with Jessie. She has far more experience and perspective than you do on these issues. Perhaps your friendship with Mack has clouded your objectivity, which is totally understandable, and your loyalty to Mack (who seems to be a fantastic fellow) is quite admirable. However, you might want to consider the effect that your unattenuated comments may have on readers - if you never point out, or admit to, the flaws in a given maker's instruments (and they all have them here and there), folks will start to ignore your praise of Macks whistles, and I assume that is not what you want. Actually, I'll go out on a limb and speculate that it's not the best thing for Mack either.

Brian, It's also important to recognize and yield to greater experience in a given area. I don't argue playing technique on this forum very often because I realize there are so many players here who's skills outstrip my own by leaps and bounds.

I certainly believe that you love Mack's whistles, as do many others on the list. That's a good thing. However it's unwise, unfair, and a bit arrogant to discount Jessie's comments, in light of her significantly greater experience.

Jessie has proven herself to be fair and generally quite accurate in her reviews of whistles. She offers constructive feedback to a whistle maker when she has a problem with a whistle, and it seems to me that she has done her best to be objective about this and other whistles she's commented on.

Brian, you have no way of knowing for sure that you played exactly the same whistles Jessie played. If indeed they were the same whistles, you have no way of knowing if the whistles were altered in any way before you played them. I trust that Mack is an honest fellow, but all sorts of things could have happen that could have lead to you playing a whistle that wasn't exactly the one Jessie played, and in the same condition.

Having said that, it seems to me that everyone here has the best of intentions; Perhaps we could agree Brian that the whistles you played sounded fine to you, and the whistles Jessie played did indeed have problems, problems that you really can't comment on, Brian.

I think it's also fair to say, that all hand made whistles can vary in quality from one to the next - Mack's are no exception, and there is no shame in that.

It seems we can also agree that Mack is a great guy and very accomodating - everyone has said this.

Finally, I'll venture that discussions like this - comments from all points of view - are a benefit to consumer and whistle maker alike.

Okay, that's enough outta me.

Loren

P.S. Brian, having heard Jessie sing, I am quite sure she needs no tuner to judge if a whistle is in, or out, of tune. Trust me on this, anyone who's heard her amazing singing will tell you this. Right Steve P?

[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2002-01-12 13:31 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2002-01-12 14:48 ]

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Sat Jan 12, 2002 7:30 pm

It was my PVC Hoover D whistle that Jessie greatly admired, borrowed, and sent to Mack to see if he would make her one just like it. I saw the ones Mack made for her and they were not the same, a fact which was obvious both to the eye and the ear.

Like Loren, I both respect Jessie's judgment of instruments and admire Mack as a whistle maker (in addition to the PVC model I have one of those sweet, quiet brass Ds that I enjoy). It is clear in this case, however, that these were not cookie-cutter whistles. It is not necessarily a bad thing for a maker to craft each instrument individually. It appears to me that each of Pat O'Riordan's whistles have their own "personality." Facts, however, are facts, and I can attest that Jessie's description is accurate.

TerryB

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:25 pm

I may have more experience than you guess at Loren, but that is perhaps the subject of another thread. I have seen MANY makers of different instruments, and have played many of them. I am NOT a great musician anywhere near the standard of the 'greats', but perhaps with both practice and patience I may be someday.

I appologize if others have seen the defence of a makers craft as a personal attack.

I will say no more, and trust my own ears, experience and observations. They haven't been too far from the mark as of yet...but we'll see

I'll leave the board to you, and hope it's a more genial place this way. Perhaps in a year or two I'll stop by again. For now, I'm tired of the squabbles.

[ This Message was edited by: Brian Lee on 2002-01-12 22:27 ]