Seeking Gen Bflat Tweaking Advice

Boo · Post by **Boo** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:29 pm

I was amazed to find that my local music store carried Generation whistles and picked up a brass bflat. I wanted to see if my tiny hands could play it. Hey, I can! And, I really like the lower key.

I followed Dale's instructions on tweaking and used the sticky-tak fill, too (thanks Jerry and others for your detailed instructions). Wow, what a difference. The lower octave is now much more focused. It has also created a nice rich, round tone that's just beautiful.

Here's my question. The top three notes of the second octave are still unfocused (not just very chiffy, if that makes sense) and take a whole lot of huff. The best cnat oxxooo and bflat xoxooo are also very chiffy and unstable (I'm still operating on the "D" whistle scale in my head--sorry for any confusion).

Believe me, I'm already very happy with this whistle thanks to the great tweaking advice, but I thought I'd just see if there are any additional tips for improving these last bits.

Thanks much.

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:34 pm

Boo wrote:Here's my question. The top three notes of the second octave are still unfocused (not just very chiffy, if that makes sense) and take a whole lot of huff. The best cnat oxxooo and bflat xoxooo are also very chiffy and unstable (I'm still operating on the "D" whistle scale in my head--sorry for any confusion).

Not tweeking per se, but I've found that starting with my Gen Bb and going down, the second octave needs a more focused air stream. The best way I can describe what I do is "tighten your cheeks and don't let them puff out".

My theory about why this helps is that by minimizing the size of the air chamber you more directly transmit changes in air pressure/speed to the mouthpiece.

Dunno if I'm right or not - but the upper register on my lower-pitched (Bb, low F, low D) whistles is a lot easier to handle this way.

Easily_Deluded_Fool · Post by **Easily_Deluded_Fool** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:43 pm

Boo wrote:The best cnat oxxooo and bflat xoxooo are also very chiffy and unstable (I'm still operating on the "D" whistle scale in my head--sorry for any confusion).

Try xoxxxo.

HTH

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:04 pm

I've found that making the soundblade ramp as smooth as possible and making the actual edge of the soundblade as perfectly uniform and knife-sharp as possible helps to sweeten and focus the upper register.

The soundblade ramp on a Generation has a bump, which is difficult to remove (not recommended unless you're skilled and stouthearted), so you may be limited in how much you can do to the soundblade ramp.

Getting the soundblade edge uniform and knife-sharp may also require some finesse. If you're not sure you can do it, I would be inclined to leave it alone. You have to be careful in this situation not to do anything that will take material off the soundblade in a way that will shorten the length (make the voicing window longer), as that may weaken the upper register more.

Also, the upper register tends to be much more vulnerable to subtle disturbances in the airstream than the lower. Any little flecks of stuff or minute irregularities in playing surfaces will tend to make the upper register sound unfocused.

No matter what you do, expect the top three notes to take some huff.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Boo · Post by **Boo** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:33 pm

Thanks for the responses. I looked at the blade and there seems to be several small nicks. I probably inadvertently put them there while tramping down the sticky tak. That's an amateur for yah. :roll:

I think I'll just leave well enough alone and not attempt to even out the blade at this point. The streamlined puffs do get those upper notes out well enough, with some extra push, so I'm happy as is.

I'd hate to tweak it to its grave...

Thanks, again, for the help!

TXwhistle · Post by **TXwhistle** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:28 pm

Having also tweaked a Gen Bb recently, I ran into the same problem. I ended up with some nicks in the soundblade and was able to smooth them out somewhat by using the fine side of an emery board. (I had to cut it at an angle.) It's not perfect, but it does sound a little better on the second octave. I thought about removing that bump, but thought better of it.

My question is, can you buy spare mouthpieces for Generations? It would be nice to have a few spares to play around with.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:41 pm

I'm not aware if you're able to buy Gen mouthpieces seperately. You can buy LBW mouthpieces from the whistle shop.

BUT...keep an eye on dollar-type stores for some of those 'toy flutes'. I've bought some of them, took the mouthpiece off, tweaked it up some, and it turned out to be an ok mouthpiece. And you get 10 of them for a dollar.

Probably not for the 'serious' player but it's fun to play around with.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:10 am

The traditional and accepted fingering for the "c-natural" on a Generation is oxxxox. (On a Bflat whistle you are actually sounding Ab.)

I would not be afraid to take a narrow strip of extra-fine sandpaper and smooth out the blade. If you do so without applying much pressure, you won't hurt your Generation. If you are concerned about the high end, try to sharpen the blade, if you want to strengthen the low end, dull it.

Boo · Post by **Boo** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:51 am

Hmmm....I was going to leave the blade alone but Bloomfield makes it sound so easy. I don't know if I can resist messing with it. Now, does this mean that if I sharpen the upper octave I'll likely weaken the lower end? It's one or the other? Just clarifying before surgery.

Thanks.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:59 am

The high end and the low and are a trade-off, but you can find an optimal spot leave neither weak.

Just remember to go slow and not to press to hard. I will fold the sandpaper or wrap it around a strip of credit card or something to make it stiff & straight. And go slow. You don't want to take shorten the blade, just remove irregularities & little burrs. I like the blade a bit on dull side, because I like husky & breathy, but that's me.

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:15 am

Thank you Jerry and Bloomfield. I was sitting here looking at my Bb and wondering if the tweak I was contemplating was the right thing to do. I feel a lot more confident now.

This type of thread is what this board is all about. This and the friendly fun in cheek bantering. If I want meansprited and critical I'll start watching the evening news again. NOT!

Boo · Post by **Boo** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:38 am

My husband who has not (yet) taken up the whistle is amazed that I can visit this forum to get instant expert advice from generous and nice people, to learn by listening in on discussions about everything whistle (and other OT), and to get a laugh or two whenever I need it.

OK, this is truly sappy but I'm truly glad to be here.

P.S. Thanks, Bloomfield, for the additional tips. I really like that booming bottom end with the loud, growling bell note so I'll play it a bit before messing with it to see if I can overcome that upper end without potentially wrecking the bottom. Many, many thanks too to Jerry, DCrom, Cranberry...ok, you know who you are.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:51 am

Another option is to put (with teflon tape to fill in the gap) a Sweetone mouthpiece (Edit: it takes a Sweetone D head) on a Gen Bb body. The difference in sound and playability is huge, and you can mess around with the changes in internal tuning with tape (to flatten) and filing the holes with an exacto knife (to sharpen). It's a fun tweak and an interesting hybrid.

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:33 am

It's funny you should ask about this. I was talking to James Peeples last night, and mentioned the same problems with my Gen Bb. He said just play it for a while and it'll probably "wear in". Makes sense, especially if there's excess "flash" (thin bits of leftover plastic from the extrusion process that didn't get cleaned up in final processing) in the mouthpiece. You can also examine the edges of the extrusion including the blade, and may be able to see excess bits of the stuff. Those you can clean up with a thin X-Acto knife, or fine (600 grit) sandpaper. They're not supposed to be there anyway.

Just barely sanding the edge of the blade on my Gen made a world of difference!

I like JessieK's hybrid idea, too, though... hmmmm... and extra head for my Gen? ... maybe...

Cheers,

serpent

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 10:49 am

Well, of course, I had to pull out a Sweetone head and try this. I don't have teflon tape at my desk, but it would be a Sweetone D head to go on a Generation Bb tube, and it would take a lot of tape.

The idea that dulling the blade strengthens the lower register is correct, but it isn't the dulling that does it.

When you dull the blade, you also lengthen the voicing window by taking some material off the end of the blade. Even lengthening the voicing window a tiny bit has an effect on the bottom two notes.

Whenever I do that particular tweak, I sharpen the soundblade again, and the bottom notes stay strong. I've tweaked a whistle that needed as much as 1/16 of an inch taken off the blade to get the bottom notes strong. On that whistle (a Dixon low D), I sharpened the blade again, the bottom notes stayed strong, and the upper register was fine.

What I've found is, a duller blade gives a less focused timbre, especially in the upper register. I always sharpen the blade again after taking some material off the edge to lengthen the voicing window enough to strengthen the bottom notes.

Best wishes,
Jerry

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