The way I've been learning tunes...

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:14 am

I'm thinking that cranberry just needs to go back to beginning music theory and learn the time signatures and note durations. It's as fundamental to music as is reading the pitch. Get a Music for Dummies (no offense intended-they're good at explaining stuff) book and start from square one. It's an essential part of being a musician.

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:31 am

Cranberry wrote: You know, I can read music. I can read the pitch (how high or low, i.e., what fingers to put down), but not the beat (how long it lasts). For that I need to hear it (and having a computer with a screwy sound doesn't help). I played clarinet for a while in school, and when I look back, I have no idea how I survived that.

If you're reading the pitch but not the beat, you're not reading all the music - like reading a book and understanding all the nouns but none of the verbs.

I think you've got the hard bit done - the pitch has more variables than the beat. Go back to your theory books and check out the section on rhythm, it's usually quite short.

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:57 am

I'm a rank beginner. Literally started two weeks ago. I played guitar (rhythm) 20 years ago and the band did rather well on the local scene in spite of the fact I couldn't read a dot.

Now, at 43, I'm taking up the whistle. After two weeks, I have a repertoire of about 4 songs, including a version of "Ballydesmond" I found on the web. Knowing jack diddly about the dots and scratches, I'm relying on sheet music with whistle tablature, and the accompanying audio file on the PC, plus 'experimenting' and trying to play tunes I already know...

My point is probably this: I'm hoping that by some process of osmosis, when I nail a tune down pat from the tablature beneath the 'standard' musical notation, I'll be able to associate the two, and one day be able to discard the tab. and play from the sheet music alone. But if I don't, it's no big deal.

For me, if I can learn a tune a week, and play them well enough not to be embarrassed if I forget to shut the windows and the neighbours hear me, that's enough. At 43 I simply don't have the patience to "go back to school" and learn music theory before I can make a decent sound on the whistle... and I guess I justify this 'laziness' by reminding myself that countless musicians worthy of the name lived, played, and died, long before today's notation came into being, and many more great musicians could play their instruments without being able to read or write *anything*.

I guess it all depends on what you what to achieve, and only you know the answer to that one.

skh · Post by **skh** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:58 am

Also, I think going "painfully slow" for a while is a stage you have to go through. There's unfortunately no shortcut to learning.

Sonja

RonKiley · Post by **RonKiley** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:03 am

I used the tab for about 2 weeks and then I just concentrated on the music notation. The tab just got in the way. The music conveys more information. Now I am trying to learn more tunes by ear. This means I am learning tunes I know well but are not IrTrad. I learned Danny Boy by ear. Now if I could play it at proper rhythm I would be happy. I am listening to tunes more deliberately now. Most of the tunes I have learned are slow. I am getting ready to attempt a hornpipe. I like Sailors Hornpipe and Fishers Hornpipe. I have been listening to the recordings on Clips and Snips of hornpipes. Whatever you do Keep whistling.

Ron

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:13 am

GaryKelly wrote: For me, if I can learn a tune a week, and play them well enough not to be embarrassed if I forget to shut the windows and the neighbours hear me, that's enough. At 43 I simply don't have the patience to "go back to school" and learn music theory before I can make a decent sound on the whistle...

I'm aiming for a tune a week on fiddle, it seems a good enough pace. In the past when I've tried to learn faster, I've failed to learn the tunes completely.

Gary, there's no need to understand a jot of music theory to make a decent sound on the whistle. It can help understand parts of the music, but it's not necessary, and millions of folks musicians can't read sheet music, and many would say they play better for it. MurphyStout for one, Azalin running a close second I think.

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:18 am

My teacher assigns anywhere from 2 - 4 tunes per two week period. For example he assigned 4 slip jigs one time, then 2 reels another time. It all depends on how hard they are. Last time I got 5, but I don't go back for a month.

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:45 am

Martin Milner wrote:
GaryKelly wrote: For me, if I can learn a tune a week, and play them well enough not to be embarrassed if I forget to shut the windows and the neighbours hear me, that's enough. At 43 I simply don't have the patience to "go back to school" and learn music theory before I can make a decent sound on the whistle...
I'm aiming for a tune a week on fiddle, it seems a good enough pace. In the past when I've tried to learn faster, I've failed to learn the tunes completely.

Gary, there's no need to understand a jot of music theory to make a decent sound on the whistle. It can help understand parts of the music, but it's not necessary, and millions of folks musicians can't read sheet music, and many would say they play better for it. MurphyStout for one, Azalin running a close second I think.

I'll chime in strong agreement on this one. I've been trying to average about one new tune a week, too.

Though I can sight-read music reasonably well, I mostly use Cranberry's method - the sheet music is really only for occasional pitch reference, and I want to listen to the tune on CD to get a feel for it.

One thing I've noticed, though - it's much easier to pick up the non-IrTrad pieces from sheet music (morris tunes and marches in particular) than the IrTrad tunes. This probably just means I haven't fully internalized the proper rhythms for IrTrad

, but it seemed worth noting.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:50 am

So...I need to just start over. Sounds simple enough. Here's the question.

Until about November, when I'm scheduled to leave, I know I won't be able to get any classes or books, so should I just not play until I'm able to attend some classes or get a better book, or play for this 7 weeks and keep up my bad habits?

skh · Post by **skh** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:54 am

Martin Milner wrote:Gary, there's no need to understand a jot of music theory to make a decent sound on the whistle. It can help understand parts of the music, but it's not necessary, and millions of folks musicians can't read sheet music, and many would say they play better for it. MurphyStout for one, Azalin running a close second I think.

I just hope there's hope for us poor creatures that were tricked into learning the dots in their pre-trad life and now can't get the knowledge out of their heads any more...

Sonja

No, don't answer, it's been beaten to death. I just couldn't resist. I don't mean it.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:57 am

Sonja, there are not tomatoes enough in the world.

skh · Post by **skh** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:02 pm

Nanohedron wrote:Sonja, there are not tomatoes enough in the world.

Throw unplayable Generations, then. I'll take them all

Sonja

BrassBlower · Post by **BrassBlower** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:50 pm

GaryKelly wrote:At 43 I simply don't have the patience to "go back to school" and learn music theory before I can make a decent sound on the whistle.

Gary,

At 43, I don't either! You don't need any music theory expert to tell you whether that sound you just made on the whistle is a decent one or not. Your ears can tell you that, especially if you are trying to play to recorded music (in my case, often in the negative sense). Then, if you don't think you're quite there after a fair bit of practice, often another player (not necessarily another whistle player) can listen to you with fresh ears and help you get there.

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:00 pm

Cranberry wrote:So...I need to just start over. Sounds simple enough. Here's the question... should I just not play until I'm able to attend some classes or get a better book, or play for this 7 weeks and keep up my bad habits?

Definitely, keep playing! I've played whistle for almost 14 years, and have a degree in Music, and I deal with sheet music the same way as you do. ITM rhythms aren't a problem, and I know that if I learn the rhythm 'wrongly', chances are that it's not critical, because I can change aspects of tunes quite easily on the fly, or call it a variation

, but if I try to sight-read other types of music, I have to count as I play the pitches. It's sometimes embarrassing, but it has never been enough of a problem that I've felt the need to learn it properly!
You're in good company! (At least in my opinion...

)
Deirdre

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:52 pm

Keep playing. You aren't practicing bad habits, IMO, it's just that you can't read rhythms etc. Learn them when you can.