Low D reach issue

[Chuck_Clark]

While I"m on the subject of low D redesign ideas, has anyone ever tried keying the D and G holes? I have a Dixon and an Overton (and temporarily a Susato, but I'm selling it). Both are supposed to be relaxed reach, but my hands are small enough that they still require a piper's grips which I don't find all that comfortable.

I've tried both whistles and it occurred to me that the other four holes are easily covered with the finger pads without a pipers grip. Only the two I mentioned really need a finger stretch. So, it then occurred to me that if those two holes were keyed (press to close, lift to open), the whistle would be not only playable but quite comfortable without a piper's grip or aching hands.

Why does/doesn't this work?

[serpent]

While I"m on the subject of low D redesign ideas, has anyone ever tried keying the D and G holes? I have a Dixon and an Overton (and temporarily a Susato, but I'm selling it). Both are supposed to be relaxed reach, but my hands are small enough that they still require a piper's grips which I don't find all that comfortable.

I've tried both whistles and it occurred to me that the other four holes are easily covered with the finger pads without a pipers grip. Only the two I mentioned really need a finger stretch. So, it then occurred to me that if those two holes were keyed (press to close, lift to open), the whistle would be not only playable but quite comfortable without a piper's grip or aching hands.

Why does/doesn't this work?

It works fine, Chuck, but adding keys adds a LOT of expensive development and labour time. Not only that, making keys that close reliably requires profiling the hole so that it can be valved with a pad of either cork, or of fishskin-covered felt. If the hole isn't completely closed, you get squeaks and all sorts of objectionable sounds.

Without sounding my own horn too much, I would suggest that you check the reviews of the Serpent Python Low D and Low G whistles. I have small hands, so I made an especial effort to make those lows playable by almost anyone, without piper's grip.

Cheers,
serpent

[DCrom]

Without sounding my own horn too much, I would suggest that you check the reviews of the Serpent Python Low D and Low G whistles. I have small hands, so I made an especial effort to make those lows playable by almost anyone, without piper's grip.

Cheers,
serpent

Chuck, I just got a Serpent Python Low F a couple of days ago. Amazingly easy reach - judging by the photo on the website, the Low D is just as easy (for a low D, at least) - it looks to be easier than my Dixon Low D, which isn't too bad either. Responsive, too - I haven't been able to play fast enough that it couldn't keep up (this last may reflect on me more than the Python, but I can easily play faster than the Dixon can respond).

But be aware that these are massive whistles - not too heavy to play, even for extended periods (I probably put a couple of hours into mine each of the last couple of nights) but enough you notice it. And after I put it down and picked up my Gen Bb it felt more like a high G

[jim stone]

I'm comfortable with piper's grip, happily, which
solves these problems for me. Also I position my
right hand slantwise, as Michael Copeland advises.

I suppose that practicing piper's grip will make
it more comfortable. Best

[Zubivka]

I know at least two low D whistles designed to play with fingerends, not piper's grip.

These are Bleazey's and Yvon Le Coant's. Both have a conical bore and smallish holes. The first one I don't own, and tried only once and briefly. Could do.
The latter I own; the 3rd holes are offset. Even if I play it with piper's grip, I know I could fingertip it (tried and did easily), but now I got so used to piper's grip I prefer it down to a low G or even A...

Now, what you wouldn't get is the low wind requirements you insist upon.
May I suggest recording on a high whistle, then doctoring it with Amazing Octave Downer software?

PS: else, get a Tenor re©ø®∂er

[Celtoid]

I have a python from Serpent, and it is very easy to play without piper's grip.

[IDAwHOa]

Both have a conical bore and smallish holes.

I know I am still in the beginner classification, but I find it very difficult to half hole on our whistles that have smallish holes. Just does not seem to be enough room to hit it just right. Either it plays off on the higher or lower note, but not at the intended half step.

[Zubivka]

I know I am still in the beginner classification, but I find it very difficult to half hole on our whistles that have smallish holes. Just does not seem to be enough room to hit it just right. Either it plays off on the higher or lower note, but not at the intended half step.

Agreed, but here the choice is not so clear-cut, being between:

1) large holes AND piper's grip
2) smaller holes AND finger tips

Btw, lack of precision in half-holing is a problem with many people (like me).
The "pig-nosed" lower holes on recorders were precisely designed to solve it, even if they don't work much better in lower octave.

[vomitbunny]

Jubilee instruments
with or without
http://jubileeinstruments.messianic-web ... -metal.htm
key for hole 6
copper, low d
59$
They also have low low whistles with one and two keys
This is also they place to find that elusive 18$ practice low d

[emmline]

I guess it's stupid to re-iterate the advice to work at piper's. You know what's good for you. I just found that once I got the hang of piper's grip I started applying it to my smaller whistles as well--personal preference.

[Steven]

I seem to recall a thread about a month or two about putting keys on those two holes, but I think it was with regard to a bamboo flute. It was an interesting design for the key. Also, Siccama-system flutes did this about 100+ years ago. However, there is always the issue that keys are not as responsive as your fingers, so it could interfere with the crispness of your playing, especially on ornaments.

Steven

[vomitbunny]

I seem to recall a thread about a month or two about putting keys on those two holes, but I think it was with regard to a bamboo flute. It was an interesting design for the key. Also, Siccama-system flutes did this about 100+ years ago. However, there is always the issue that keys are not as responsive as your fingers, so it could interfere with the crispness of your playing, especially on ornaments.

Steven

Suposidly the jubilee whistle has put on a soft type pad that can be closed either slightly or completely by pressure, to better mimic he action of a real finger.
I wonder if I could somehow get ahold of a real finger to use for a pad? Almost anything can be had on the devil-net one way or another.....
Ps. Ebay doesn't allow the selling of body parts. (any more)

[CDon]

I do not own a low whistle, but I keep thinking about acquiring one. The issue of reach concerns me also because I too have small hands (more accurately, short fingers.) I don't think I have seen it discussed, but does half-holing become problematic with the piper's grip?

[Bloomfield]

I do not own a low whistle, but I keep thinking about acquiring one. The issue of reach concerns me also because I too have small hands (more accurately, short fingers.) I don't think I have seen it discussed, but does half-holing become problematic with the piper's grip?

Not really. Fingering and covering the wholes is generally one of the two big issues of switching to a low D (breathing/breath support being the other). It might be hard for you if you use Mary-Bergin-style fingertip playing on a high D, because you wouldn't be able to get away with that on a low D.

[lixnaw]

Now, what you wouldn't get is the low wind requirements you insist upon.
May I suggest recording on a high whistle, then doctoring it with Amazing Octave Downer software?

or play a key that you can handle, but wich sound you love.
i believe you'"ll get much more satisfaction in playing a low F of your favourite make,
then playing an "easy to reach low D"