OT: hammered dulcimers and their traditional use

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:34 am

waitingame wrote:
BrassBlower wrote:
Does Taraf de Haidouks use HD, or is that a Cymbalom?
Saw them recently (they are terrific) and am pretty sure they use Cymbalom.

There is a video of this group at this page http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/world/awardstaraf.shtml

In the few brief shots of the instrument it certainly appears to be a cymbolom. However in the picture on the BBC page the instrument to the right of the fiddler and on the opposite side from the accordion does not look like a cymbolom. For one thing, the player appears to be "wearing" it. This is possible with a dulcimer-at least with some dulcimers but a cymbolom is too large. To see a close up of some cymboloms you can look at the used dulcimer section at Elderly Instruments. http://www.elderly.com/vintage/155U.htm

There used to be a Romanian guy with a cymbolom who came to the Southern Michigan Dulcimer Festival (RIP). As far as I could tell, he was excellent. Certainly he put most of the average dulcimer players to shame. He never looked at the instrument but was always surveying and mugging for the audience. He also used to accompany an old time fiddler in informal sessions, playing wild chromatic gypsy sounding passages behind old time fiddle tunes.

Steve

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:43 am

People have been mentioning some of their favorite dulcimer players but have passed over some of mine. I don't recall seeing the names of Ken Kolodner, John McCutcheon, Malcolm Dalglish or Bill Spence. The latter three were very active in the dulcimer revival period beginning sometime in the 1970s.
Ken Kolodner was the dulcimer player with Helicon, a band featuring Chris Norman. More recently he has recorded with a band called Greenfire. Along with Howie Mitchell, I would say that Bill Spence was one of the most influential people in sparking a revival in interest in the dulcimer and that McCutcheon and Dalglish were (and remain) two of the most outstanding players of the dulcimer.

Steve

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:28 am

fThere are a multiitude of tapes and Cds with this
instrument, quite a few devoted to celtic music,
others to appalacian stuff, others to classical.
You can get a pretty good idea from these.
I play flute with a society for HD, which is fun.
Goes well with flute.

My one small complaint about HD is that
the tone can become monotonous
when the player just rattles along. The hammers
have a wood side and a felt covered side for softer,
but the instrument seems to lack the
variety of tone and expressiveness of the
piano. Needs to be played with some
restraint, I think; sometimes less is more. best

HDSarah · Post by **HDSarah** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:47 pm

I second all the recommendations for particular hammered dulcimers that have been made so far. In particular, Ken Kolodner's "Walking Stones" CD is one of my all-time favorites, and I also listen to Fennig's All-Star String Band (Bill Spence) over and over.

Here are a few more HD players that haven't been mentioned yet in this thread, and are worth a listen:

American old-timey: Rick Thum, Critton Hollow String Band (Sam Hermann is the dulcimer player)
Irish/Celtic: Karen Ashbrook, David James, Cliff Moses

Sarah

lilymaid · Post by **lilymaid** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:46 pm

Thank you all for the information and links. I’ll continue to look into it, but other than the fact that Yanni scares me, I think it does sound as if it would suit me.

They're really lovely.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:09 am

HDSarah wrote:
American old-timey: Rick Thum, Critton Hollow String Band (Sam Hermann is the dulcimer player)
Irish/Celtic: Karen Ashbrook, David James, Cliff Moses

Sarah

Sam Hermann, by the way, is a woman and the wife of fiddler Joe Hermann. Critton Hollow must be one of the longest running old time bands ever. Maybe not as long as the Red Clay Ramblers but they've been active since the 1970s. Here's a link to an article about Sam.

http://www.dpnews.com/articles/articles_herrmann.html

Steve

lilymaid · Post by **lilymaid** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:13 am

I was wondering if anyone can tell me a bit about what kind of dulcimers they play and find nice or don't like, and what to look for in an instrument in general. I will probably be getting a more modestly priced one.

Thank you all ever so much.

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:44 am

Mine is a 17/16/8 Meadowlark by Songbird (Chris Foss). Two string courses. It stays in tune very well.
It's 4 years old and I only had to adjust the treble bridge once very slightly on the high notes.
Because of it's size it has a massive sustain especially on the lower bass notes.
On the bass bridge I tune the high Bb to a B sometimes and tune the so-called chromatic bridge differently depending on what I want to do. However there can be some pulsing if the chromatic bridge is not tuned right as it vibrates; especially on the left treble A across from the treble low D.

The price was around 600 USD at Elderly instruments.
The only thing I dislike is the size. It's huge and difficult to haul around.

For travel/renfaires or other festivals I'd recommend a smaller one. a 12/11 or such.

I use a wooden adjustable stand that is very heavy and cumbersome but it adjusts for sitting or standing. Again, for travel you could probably or make a lighter one.

I definitely do not recommend a three string/course unless you love tuning. However some people love them for their sheer power and I'm sure some will disagree with me on that.

The dulcimer of my dreams is a Rick Thum pro model. I think it's 16/15 with a floating top. Which means it will keep in tune better with temp fluxuation. Plus it has tuning pins on both sides which supposedly allow for finer tuning across the bridges. I've never had one like that so I don't know. If the bridge is positioned right that should not be an issue.

Question for Lilymaid. Have you found info on how they are tuned and all the "lingo" associated with them? I'm sure I or another one of our HD players would be happy to provide a discourse.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:14 am

geek4music wrote:
Question for Lilymaid. Have you found info on how they are tuned and all the "lingo" associated with them? I'm sure I or another one of our HD players would be happy to provie a discourse.

A useful page for some of this information is the Kitchen Musician site. It also has some tunes. There are sections on history and anatomy of the dulcimer and also tuning charts. There are various tuning schemes depending on the size of the dulcimer. Some dulcimers have more bridges than the customary two. The larger Dusty Strings models and many of James Jones' instruments have these bridges. There are the newer chromatic type dulcimers too-linear chromatic and piano dulcimers. On the kitchen musician charts you will notice that there are octave bass and fifth bass systems. The fifth is by far the most common but some people prefer octave bass which seems to be a characteristic of some dulcimers made in Michigan.

My dulcimer is a J&K. It has it's good and bad points. Its fairly loud, which I like. It doesn't sound like the larger J&K models which have a much richer tone. I don't know much about all the various makes. There are many. I think Byll knows a lot though. Here's the address for the Kitchen Musician site: http://members.aol.com/kitchiegal/

Steve

lddulcimer · Post by **lddulcimer** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:34 am

I play a Songbird Phoebe model - 16/15. http://www.songbirdhd.com/ It was a great entry point dulcimer as it has enough courses to allow musical growth, but with the birch laminate top/bottom it is very stable in tuning and was inexpensive to get started (I think my dulcimer was $375 without the case). There really is no right or wrong when selecting a dulcimer - everyone has different opinions of what makes a good dulcimer. A lot of people would consider mine junk because of the laminate top/bottom, but I have had a LOT of compliments about the sound/tone of it. I have been very happy with my choice. If you play a lot of airs and slower tunes, you probably want a dulcimer with more sustain. That same quality will drive you nuts and make things very "muddy" if you play a lot of faster fiddle tunes. Chromatic dulcimers are also a great option, which give you a few extra notes to help with the non-dulcimer friendly keys.

I was given the advice to buy at least a 16/15 if I had experience with another instrument, as I would outgrow a 12/11 too quickly. I stil think that was good advice. Also, I would say the best advice I ever received was to play as many duclimers as possible to see for myself what I liked and disliked. Now that I have been playing for a while, I can definitely say that my opinions about what I personally want in a dulcimer have changed quite a bit. Yours probably will too.

The great part is that there are a lot of wonderful builders out there with a lot of really great instruments. I can't even say for sure that I know what I would buy right now if I were going to upgrade - although I am leaning toward a Jerry Reed Smith/Song of the Wood http://www.songofthewood.com/ or a Masterworks http://www.woodnstrings.com/. Honestly, it would be a very hard decision. Like whistlemakers, there are a lot of good HD builders out there and a lot of really good choices. All of the builders mentioned so far are also on my short list. :roll: If you live near a folk music store, you might be able to rent a dulcimer to get started. It is a great way to start learning to play and about the instrument itself before investing. (since dulcimers are a wee bit more expensive than Generations)

BrassBlower · Post by **BrassBlower** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:55 am

I was watching the Chieftains "Irish Evening" DVD last night, and the very first thing I saw when the music started, right in front of Derek Bell, was a cymbalom!

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:15 am

I came across this interesting looking article on the dulcimer in Ireland. I haven't read it all but Derek Bell is supposed to be mentioned.

http://www.corkdulcimerfest.org/Dulcimer_Thesis.pdf

Steve

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:05 am

SteveK wrote:I came across this interesting looking article on the dulcimer in Ireland. I haven't read it all but Derek Bell is supposed to be mentioned.

It mentions him occasionally playing cymbalom, but calling it "tiompan". Contrary to the article's assertion of the word being the Irish for dulcimer, nobody really knows for sure what the tiompan was; the meaning was lost over time. Somehow the name appears to fit, although I'm no scholar equal to such pronouncements...it may be that D. Bell was making a guess on the issue with the goal of giving a traditional cachet to the instrument.

(edited for the usual reasons)

chattiekathy · Post by **chattiekathy** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:21 am

Hi Lily maid. Oh, you are in trouble now! The Hammered Dulcimer is very addictive.

Here is a thread on Everything Dulcimer http://everythingdulcimer.com/index.php that might give you some ideas about which dulcimer to buy. Go to the discussion groups and the forum there is a great place to ask questions and get good answers from some very friendly and helpful people. HERE is a discussion about different dulcimers. I am Kathy on that forum.

I have a Rick Thum 16/16 dulcimer. I love it! It sounds wonderful and is very nice to look at too. It isn't fully chromatic but I do have some extra handy notes that some dulcimers don't have. You can read about these dulcimers at www.rthum.com .

Happy hunting!

Cheers,
Kathy

Byll · Post by **Byll** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:49 am

Lilymaid: Please check your PM.
Best
Byll