What are most popular flat sets?

Baen · Post by **Baen** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:30 am

I heard back from Seth Gallagher, and he said that if I was concerned with pipe volume (in terms of neighbors), I might think of a flat set in C or B.

Any ideas on which are the most popular flat sets? What have some of the famous pipers, such as Seamus Ennis, played?

thanks,
Baen

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:38 am

Baen, I believe Ennis had a C# set.

I would suggest you actually go and listen to some of the flat sets to see if they are what you want. If you want to play with other instruments, you will want to stick with D for ease of use. All instructional materials for UPs are in D. Any classes/tionals you attend will be taught in D.

If you will only be playing solo, you might want to consider B or Bb. These are the lowest pitched, and some think they have the nicest sound. Check out recordings by Ronan Browne, Liam O'Flynn, etc. to hear what a B set sounds like. Bb is very rare in UPs, and I can only think of a couple of people who have them. The tone holes are very far apart.

Sets in C are less common, but this is starting to change, and many of the luminaries at tionals are starting to show up with C sets (some say this is to prevent the punters from joining in the more advanced sessions

).

The C# is a bit of a curiosity - not quite as bright a sound as a D, not quite as mellow as a C or B. Also, not in tune with anything else. This may be an advantage if you are determined to stay a solo piper (worked for Ennis).

Don't go just by some "concept" of loud or quiet. Do some homework on what sound you want, and what you really intend to do with your pipes. You can always investigate small-bore Ds, as well.

djm

stew · Post by **stew** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:24 pm

Hear~hear C# & narrow D, Forget the other lower keys there
depressing to listen too.

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 4:08 pm

Bb chanters are a bit largish. Some who've tried mine wussed out. And the whole set's longer and heavier, too. Kind of a game of inches, but still. B chanters don't faze most people, it seems. Give 'em a try, by all means. C# or C seemed to be the most popular pitch in the old days, they liked a bright chanter but not too chanter, playing for dancers and all. Lots of Bs, too. B seems to be the most popular flat pitch now, also.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 4:21 pm

stew wrote:Hear~hear C# & narrow D, Forget the other lower keys there
depressing to listen too.

??

??

I must have all the emotional sensitivity of a slug. I like my C set!! Well, when it's working, anyway...

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:37 pm

Nanohedron wrote:
stew wrote:Hear~hear C# & narrow D, Forget the other lower keys there
depressing to listen too.
?? ??

I must have all the emotional sensitivity of a slug. I like my C set!! Well, when it's working, anyway...

Yes you do. But that C set still has a great sound. You can't really think of a C# set as either a C# set or a "flat" set in the usual sense. C# is just approximately the pitch of the D chanter in that particular day. D was D whatever external frequency standard the world adhered to. When Taylor/Rowsome brought the pitch/volume up then D became approximately the same pitch that the external world also called a D. But even then, a lot of those old chanters really play quite sharp of modern D.

A C set is truly and deliberately flatter than modern pitch, as are the B, Bb or anything inbetween sets. In order to get the "flat" sound you really have to start at C I think. C# is an older, funky sound, but it doesn't really sound "flat" and doesn't have that ancient tonality to it.

As a side note, anyone playing a modern C set might want to make it actually play exactly at modern C for social reasons, but anyone with an old C#-Bb set that was never intended to play with anyone else or in "standard" pitch of any sort, would be crazy to try to force it to actually come out at C#, B, Bb or any other convenient modern frequency because there is absolutely no reason to do so. When the pipes sound nicely they sound nicely, and wherever that ultimate frequency ends up is just fine.

Royce

giles b · Post by **giles b** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:44 pm

For listening to recordings of flat sets in B listen to Robbie Hannan's solo recording or Sean Potts' latest. Jimmy O'Brien Moran plays in B on a few tracks on his record, Sean Reids Favourite, Mick O'Brien plays in B on some tracks on May Morning Dew. I think B is a great key and all the pipemakers I know who make pipes in different keys say that B is the easiest one to get going and to reed.

If youre learning to play, you don't have to read the music any differently for a flat chanter than for a concert pitch chanter, the basic fingering is all the same just the pitch is lower. I would think that if you were just starting out it would be easily at least a year before you could be playing with anyone else. If you learn on a flat set and then go on to a concert pitch chanter it is loads easier, going from a wider spread to a closer one.

My first working chanter was in C and was made for me by Dicky Deegan and was great. Then I moved on to an old Wooff B before getting a concert pitch chanter that worked well enough to be worth playing, I had struggled with a woefull concert pitch chanter before Dicky took pity on me and everyone elses ears and got the C to me. I think it was a good way to go.

giles b · Post by **giles b** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 8:58 pm

In reply to your question, I dont think you would find anyone in their right mind that would say no to a flat set from Geoff Wooff. I have one in B that I picked up from Geoff in 2001, it continues to be brilliant. I still have the old B chanter that I started on too and its not bad at all either.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:54 am

Nanohedron wrote:I must have all the emotional sensitivity of a slug.

Royce wrote:Yes you do.

It has its advantages, as you probably well know.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:28 pm

I was going to clarify what I realized was an ambiguous statement by saying that the above assessments were solely in reference to myself, of course...but I'll let it stand.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:25 pm

Kevin L. Rietmann wrote:Bb chanters are a bit largish....

I just measured the finger spread on a B to a Bb (different makers) and the top tone hole to bottom tone was only 3mm longer on the Bb, much less than I expected.

djm · Post by **djm** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:43 pm

The shock is going from a D chanter to a B or Bb. While its do-able, of course, it can really put one out a bit. I haven't had an opportunity to try a Bb, but I know it throws me off going back and forth between the D and B chanters, the most noticable difference being the space between the F# and E holes.

djm

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:37 pm

This all depends on the B chanter in question, but you're right about it feeling a bit strange at first. Getting used to it can be a very pleasant journey, though.

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:56 pm

I found when I got my B set that the D set felt like a little toy in comparison

PD.

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:28 pm

You too, huh?

Played my D last night at a set dancing class as a favor for a friend, and it did indeed feel like a toy.

I think playing a B or C chanter on a daily basis can help your D piping, but I don't think it works in reverse. It seems to help mine at any rate. Can anyone else report such an experience?