Whistling the Blues... with Native American Flutes?

[Zubivka]

Not exactly a follow-up of the former Whistling the Blues thread.

Getting interested in the NA flutes, I just noticed they're supposed to be tuned in minor Pentatonic mode. This is what the 5-holed NA flutes seem top play naturally.
OK, now a 6th hole (placed 3rd from top) often gives it a diminished fifth, completing a Blues scale.

Some common keys seem to fit well, too: E, F, F#, all minor.

Any experience with them (with or without blues), someone?

And any advice for some meant primarily to be music instruments, when most I saw on the web look more like tourists novelties, complete with turquoise insets and feathers?

[Nanohedron]

Zoob, I came up with http://www.heartwoodflutes.com, and the maker Coyote Oldman looks very worthwhile, too.

[glauber]

Any investigation of native American fluting (both traditional and modern) should pass through Amon Olorin flutes and the work of R. Carlos Nakai. After that, try http://worldflutes.org/ and subscribe to their newsletter.

[herbivore12]

Zoob:

I play a couple flutes by Butch Hall; his work is very good, and quite affordable:

www.butchhallflutes.com

Also very good, and capable of some beautiful woodwork, is JP Gomez at:

www.heartsongflutes.com

he has a longer waiting list, though. I played one of his closed-end bass drone flutes one: outstanding, incredible sound and beautiful to look at.

You can see flutes by various makers at these sites:

http://www.oregonflutestore.com/

http://www.worldflutes.org/links.html

Be aware that different makers may use slightly different tunings and/or fingering systems. The flutes I play by Butch Hall use different fingerings for the top few notes than some other makers use. There are different theories on the best, or most traditional way of making the flute (equidistant fingerholes of equal size, fingerholes placed and sized individually, fingerholes placed according to the hand size of the player, and so on). I find the system used by Butch Hall and Ken Light (of Amon Olorin flutes) to be the most useful for me, personally, but I have flutes that use differnt systems. All are easy to play, once you get used to them.

A fun instrument to noodle around with, too, since it's almost impossible to play a "wrong" note. Have fun!

[Nanohedron]

Nakai!! Now there's a player. Thanks, Glauber. I was trying to remember the name.

[herbivore12]

Nakai's very good (and it was through him I learned of Butch Hall's flutes). Also, Mary Youngblood is worth checking out. One of her CDs -- I think it's called "The Offering" -- is just unaccompanied NA flute, played in a cave or somesuch. Haunting sounds, this simple wooden tube can make. . .

Nakai's book on NA Flute is worth getting, too.

[jim stone]

I spend a lot of time in New Mexico.
I've played quite a few of these flutes, some of them
good ones, and I confess I still don't know what
to make of them or whether I really
like them. I even owned one for awhile,
playable but not a good one.

You can play the
blues on 'em, no doubt about it. My impression
is that the blues needs an edge that these
don't have. I say this very tentatively. I
don't know what I'm doing yet on NA flutes.
Maybe somebody with more experience
can say more about playing them.

(I'm playing the blues a fair amount on the
Irish flute, with a guitar accompaniment.
The Seery is good for that--just half hole
a couple of notes and there you go. Sucker
wails.)

[Zubivka]

Thanks to you all, folks! Have a problem? Name it, and Chiffellasship will help you out. I'm glad I enlisted in the tribe. Wild and crazy bunch.

The link to Mr. Nakai (Esq.) doesn't work heap much, but all the others did.

I think I'll invest in Mr. Amon Olorin (baronet) ABS set, just to see if the Spirit of The Turtle Island Urban Myth Drainpipe Crocodile is my closet totem. I did dream of an upside down pissoir once, so...

Krazy keys, too: F# minor plus G minor. Should sound like fun...

[glauber]

Darn it, i messed up the Nakai link. Here it is (fixed above too):
http://www.rcarlosnakai.com/. Here's another one: http://www.canyonrecords.com/artnakai.htm.

The native American flute was basically a lost tradition until Nakai almost singlehandedly ressurrected it, invented a notation system for it and released a bunch of records. Nakai's roots are as jazz trumpet player, and he's kept an eye on traditional music and an eye on modern applications. Now with the whole New Age thing, the American Indian culture became "cool", and there are flutes everywhere.

This is a very interesting kind of flute. It has a very sweet tone, no edge to it. It's probably the easiest instrument in the world to play. The construction is different from any other flutes, in that it has 2 air chambers that connect through an air duct under that "totem" thing. The only parallel for this design is in certain kinds of organ pipes, so there is a theory that these flutes were actually developed by copying organ pipes discarded by European travellers. One thing that supports this is that there is no archaelogical record of an evolution of this design, it appears around 1850 very much as it is today.

Another thing to keep in mind is that strictly traditionally, these flutes are not tuned to a scale. The tone holes are equal in size and equally spaced, usually based in measurements of the maker's arms, hands and fingers. Most modern makers "tweak" the hole spacing so you get an incomplete minor scale. With cross-fingers you can get most notes of a major scale too, just over one octave. In this same spirit, the majority of flutes are made so the bell note is F# or G.

[slowair]

I was into Native American flute before I found the whistle.

I purchased three. The first one I got was a bit of a disappointment.

I did further research and found the flute maker for Mary Youngblood.

His name is Russ Venable and he is THE best.

I haven't talked to him in almost two years. At that time he wasn't making a whole lot, but if you talk to him with enthusiasm, he will get excited and make you the most wonderful instrument you have ever owned.

I have an F# in Cypress and a dual chamber E in cherry.

He's not cheap, but he's not the most expensive either. I HIGHLY recommend him.

If you would like to contact him, email or PM me for his phone number.

Mike

[Zubivka]

This is a very interesting kind of flute. It has a very sweet tone, no edge to it. It's probably the easiest instrument in the world to play. The construction is different from any other flutes, in that it has 2 air chambers that connect through an air duct under that "totem" thing. The only parallel for this design is in certain kinds of organ pipes, so there is a theory that these flutes were actually developed by copying organ pipes discarded by European travellers. One thing that supports this is that there is no archaelogical record of an evolution of this design, it appears around 1850 very much as it is today.

Hmm... I can find at least one European parallel design: the Flageolet. Same thing: a straw-blown upper chamber, a duct and a labium.
And you also blow through a round hole mouthpiece, while the sound is formed by a slit.
In some way, this intermediate chamber reminds the principle of the bagpipe, i.e. indirect blowing, even if it lacks the bag pressure regulation.
Now the mid-19th century origin you set is also vaguely reminiscent of the flageolet.

Ideas are live beings--and they seem to travel in the air. Here, it seems they seeded roots in different ecosystems. While thinking of a woodwind design, I was pointed out to a 1929 patent, not the same way to do it, but same intent.

Now what seems to set the NA flute aside from the Western tradition is the minor scale. I don't know of any single Western instrument primarily based on a minor scale.

I HIGHLY recommend him.

If you would like to contact him, email or PM me for his phone number.

Mike

You bet I'd like it. Btw, has he got a website?

[Walden]

Well, here's my clip on an A minor NA flute that was made by Jonah Thompson.

MP3: Precious Memories

[knorris908]

Not exactly a follow-up of the former Whistling the Blues thread.

Getting interested in the NA flutes, I just noticed they're supposed to be tuned in minor Pentatonic mode. This is what the 5-holed NA flutes seem top play naturally.
OK, now a 6th hole (placed 3rd from top) often gives it a diminished fifth, completing a Blues scale.

Some common keys seem to fit well, too: E, F, F#, all minor.

Any experience with them (with or without blues), someone?

And any advice for some meant primarily to be music instruments, when most I saw on the web look more like tourists novelties, complete with turquoise insets and feathers?

Hi Zoob!

I actually started learning "Celtic" flute because my Great-Great Grandmother, (We tend to live VERY long 100yr+ lives...) got me started with N.A. flute, and it seemed to be a natural progression. (She was the Shaman's daughter of an "unrecognized" until recently, Lumby tribe.)

I personally have a J.P. Gomez BLACKHAWK flute variation. When I explained what type of ceremonies it would be used for, he worked with me to carefully custom-design it. And it is DEFINITELY one of a kind! And for the time and materials that he put into it, it was WAY under-priced.
(Like a thousand dollars under-priced!)

I can't recommend waiting for a J.P. Gomez highly enough. Not that there aren't many other fine makers out there. But I'd say that his work is the ABELL or even Grinter of the N.A. flute society. And he is truly wonderful to work with. (He even has my review of his work under his "Endorsements" section, though I'm not quite in the same skill category as Mary Youngblood.)

Sincere best wishes with this latest interest Zoob, as I believe you will find it infinitely rewarding.

Kenneth

[Wombat]

I just got a Native American Flute from Herbivore12—well, one head with F# and G bodies. So far I'm strictly at the noodling stage although I've heard it suggested that improving is just a matter of getting to noodle in more interesting ways. It's great fun but I can't see it specifically as a blues instrument.

I like to play blues on whistle and find it works very well. If I want to play both major and minor 3rds a lot, I'll tend to use a two hole start, otherwise five hole.

[Royce]

[quote="
Now what seems to set the NA flute aside from the Western tradition is the minor scale. I don't know of any single Western instrument primarily based on a minor scale.
[quote]

Except for all the Scandinavian ones, including flutes, whistles, bagpipes, fiddles, nickelharpa, and a billion lute thingies and hurdygurdy do-jobbers.

Royce