What's wrong with non-IrTRAD?

[madguy]

There seems to be a "movement" on this board that's trying to sway eveyone towards playing only traditional Irish music. A few of us love Kwela, and many of us use our whistles for various other types of music, too. In fact, one of our lady members just released a fantastic CD which is a departure from tradtional Irish music. All I want to know is, what's wrong with this? This entire site was started as a celebration, if you will, of the tin whistle, and that's all!!!

~Larry

[jim stone]

nothing- never seen anybody do that. long tradition
of valuing all sorts of music. maybe some feel that
the best celtic music is trad.

just made 50 dollars playing bluegrass and blues on
the street--flute.

[madguy]

Jim, you never cease to amaze me, be it your intellect or your musical knowledge. And now I find out how well-rounded your musical talents are!

~Larry

[jim stone]

thanks. bates street folk n' blues band rules

[madguy]

jim, you rule!!!!!!!!!

~Larry

[Chuck_Clark]

Larry

There've always been a few here who are adamant that only IRTrad is appropriate on a whistle. However, while vocal, they've never been a majority. I came into this through American traditional music, though I try not to limit my tastes.

It's like anything else. No matter what the activity, some folks are very committed to their branch of it and vocal in its favor. They don't hurt anyone by it and aren't really changing any minds, so its sort of a live-and-let-live situation.

[chas]

"Don't listen to people who tell you you can't do this or you must do that. If Michelangelo had listened to these people he would have painted the floor of the Sistene Chapel and it would have worn away long ago." I think it was Henry Ford who said something to this effect.

I'm with Jim and Chuck. I think there are some on the board who are IrTrad purists, and more who just assume that's what everyone plays. I certainly like it, but I have no aspirations to play in sessions or anything. I'd rather sit at home and play along with Yusef Lateef or Joni Mitchell. Lets me use my two odd-key Thin Weasels: a Bflat in Honduran rosewood and an E in Mopane.

I also play from sheet music: the complete works of O'Carolan is a perpetual favorite; also John and William Neal (more like early music than IrTrad) and the Joyce collection, which is a mix of songs, airs, and dances, a little more traditional.

[energy]

There've always been a few here who are adamant that only IRTrad is appropriate on a whistle.

There has? Either I'm just not involved enough in the board to see it, or we're making mountains out of mole hills, to use a phrase that doesn't apply or make sense in the context. I'm too tired right now to think of one that does, so I hope no one minds... I'll admit that there are people here who prefer Irish music above any other whistle music, and probably are more interested in that type of music and how it gets interpreted when played on the whistle than they are in the instrument itself, but I don't think anyone has suggested that the whistle is only suitable for Irish trad and no other type of music. Wow, that was a run on sentence for ya'! Stick a fork in me, I'm done. G'night.

[Wombat]

nothing- never seen anybody do that. long tradition
of valuing all sorts of music. maybe some feel that
the best celtic music is trad.

just made 50 dollars playing bluegrass and blues on
the street--flute.

You've gotta be kidding Jim. So Larry's just making it all up?

We know you don't have the attitude that Larry is talking about but when I first joined C&F it hit me like a right hook from nowhere. I didn't even know there was a mouldy fygge attitude around in Celtic music circles. Now I've been here a while, I realise that probably most people here like other styles of music including less traditional Celtic styles.

With hindsight, I've wondered why I was naive about the existence of a purist movement. Two reasons I think.

First, I'm old enough to have been aware of, and alienated by, blues and jazz purist movements in the 60s and to have seen our understanding of both forms of music race ahead when a new breed of scholar and fan came along who wanted to understand both musics as evolving forms rather than forms frozen in time for the express purpose of keeing a few white fans in perpetual adolescence. I thought fans of traditional musics everywhere would have learnt the lesson by now.

Second, backward looking, nostlagic attitudes have never been pushed by the (mainly black) innovators in either jazz and blues; they were the invention of the white critic. Since Celtic musicians are likely to have been brought up in the tradition they are playing and extending, I didn't expect them to have 'noble savage' fantasies about themselves.

Wrong on both counts.

[lixnaw]

i'm very ignorant concerning other types of music then irish trad. most of the music played on a whistle is still irish traditional. there's a good many whistle makers in americay and other country's, but it's thanks to irish traditional music that the whistle survived. therefore it deserves respect. otherwise this might have been a recorder forum

but i also believe it's very good that other people play different styles of music on the whistle, it's a blessing to be creative. if i had a young fella who played nothing but the blues on a low D, i'd be more then happy!! it's whatever tickle's your fancy

[kevin m.]

Play ANYTHING you like on the whistle!!
I must admit that I spend most of my listening time with Itrad. these days,because I'm trying to get a handle on the music-Jazz and Blues still come more naturally to me,but then I suppose these forms are ingrained in me,by years of listening and exposure to them.
I've got u.pipes on order,and whilst there's nothing wrong with playing other music on them,if that's what you want to do,it's my ambition to play them in an authentic 'as I can manage' Irish traditional style.
I'm at least 12.5 per cent Irish,so you'd think that I'd have some 'contact' with this I. Trad stuff.Unfortunately,the 12.5 Irish per cent of me must be my left foot,or something! (this is a JOKE-please don't accuse me of racism,inverted or otherwise!)
Back to the whistle- I am also a big Kwela fan (I got into it by hearing S. African Jazzers like 'The Bluenotes-now THERE WAS a Band!!- and worked backwards!).
Play what you FEEL!

[Walden]

There've always been a few here who are adamant that only IRTrad is appropriate on a whistle.

There has? Either I'm just not involved enough in the board to see it, or we're making mountains out of mole hills, to use a phrase that doesn't apply or make sense in the context. I'm too tired right now to think of one that does, so I hope no one minds...

It's not generally a stated view, as much as a general assumption, on a good many people's part, that all participants in the Forums are into IrTrad. There is a lot of assuming and stereoptyping, in fact. Not necessarily a purposeful, or stated bias toward Irish or other "Celt" or traditional musics, just an unthought-through assumption that the tinwhistle is a uniquely Irish musical instrument, and that anyone interested in it, is either (a) Irish (b) would-be Irish (c) an American or other person of Irish descent wanting to get "back to his heritage" (d) a neo-Celt (a form of "c," in these people's view, I suspect) (e) a misguided Scots, Welsh, or possibly English traditionalist (f) a person interested in Irish Trad, as it surely must be the only non-commercial music in the world, or (g) someone who heard the tinwhistle in Riverdance, Titanic, Dixie Chicks, or some other commercial pop culture productions, who needs to be guided to the "pure drop."

[Zubivka]

edited to suppress the double post

[Zubivka]

(f)... Irish Trad, as it surely must be the only non-commercial music in the world, or (g) someone who heard the tinwhistle in Riverdance, Titanic, Dixie Chicks, or some other commercial pop culture productions, who needs to be guided to the "pure drop.

(f) is a long throw and (g) blatantly contradicts it.

I'll second Wombat.
Firts, there are some creative musicians, doing their own thing; then there's an audience, and a trend, and a market for critics. Critics are good at determining little boxes with neat sticky labels.

The audience needs them as guides, but it's so easy to get from a Guide attitude to a Leader (a mild sort of Führer). And the more they'll be assertive, the more they'll find followers, because so many people are so comfortable when given an Unquestionable Truth.

With time Critics capitalize, become the self-annointed Guardians of the Tradition of the Holy Stick, then the deacons of the Church of True Believers, and then--Burn them all Infidels!--they decide who and when should be excommuniated. For instance for having played a D tune in Bb, or sequencing a cran backwards, or tonguing, whatever.

For some reason, whatever music you consider, the Sect of True Believers (well, they'd probably resent not being called a Church) disses "pop" music, having forgotten in the way that most modern music has folksy, i.e. popular roots. It's probably a way to feel superior to the vulgum pecus of the "plebæian" pop music.

I'm there are already Priests and Churches of the hip-hop, of bass n'drums, etc.

In French musical circles, such people are formally named Academists and, unformally, just... Ayatollahs. I love this latter term esp. when applied to Christians

[lixnaw]

(f)... Irish Trad, as it surely must be the only non-commercial music in the world, or (g) someone who heard the tinwhistle in Riverdance, Titanic, Dixie Chicks, or some other commercial pop culture productions, who needs to be guided to the "pure drop.

(f) is a long throw and (g) blatantly contradicts it.

I'll second Wombat.
There are creative misicians; then there's an audience, and a market for critics. Critics are good at determining little boxes with neat sticking labels.

With time Critics capitalize, become the self-annointed Guardians of the Tradition of the Holy Stick, then the deacons of the Church of True Believers, and then--Burn them all Infidels!--they decide who and when should be excommuniated. For instance for having played a D tune in Bb, or sequencing a cran backwards, or tonguing, whatever.

In French musical circles, this people are formally named Academists and, unformally, just... Ayatollahs. I love this latter term esp. when applied to Christians

irish traditional music is the most popular style among all old music styles. it doesn't need a label, it survived for ages. even without instruments it survived. all them churches you mentioned, need to change to survive.
but a drop of the pure doesn't, it only grows bigger, and has been an inspiration to other music styles like bluegrass,... and will be an inspiration in the future for more types to come.
thanks to the old styles, we can be creative and produce other styles. if you don't respect the old ways, you're not on very solid ground.