Busking from sheet music

selkie · Post by **selkie** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:40 pm

Maybe they were playing fairly new stuff? I always use sheet music. Unfortunately disability means that I have virtually no short term memory and cannot learn tunes off by heart. It's very tough and frustrating and people that you meet and play tunes with don't understand this.

lixnaw · Post by **lixnaw** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:49 pm

the next time you see them sonya, just pretend you put something in there collecting box, humbly bent over and grab all the cash

. they wouldn't have the faintest, they'd be with there noses in the sheets

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:05 pm

I'm still in awe of people who play in public, period. Everytime I try, I dang near soil m' britches (full of stitches). Only way I can do it is shut my eyes and pretend everyone is naked.

I love the way Azalin's accent and speech patterns come through in his posts! Man, I adore your French-Canadian accent, why, if I were standing beside you now I'd..., no, wait, I'd just buy you a Bulmers, OK? We don't go in for all that kissy kissy stuff except with the girls, you know?

BTW Does carol singing with the printed words still count as practising? Just a thought...

Actually, I agree with several opposing points of view here so I'll just keep sitting on my fence and making like Zelig.

Monster · Post by **Monster** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 6:21 pm

I agree with Telegram Sam. Some forms of musical performance are just plain silly when done with sheet music. I once heard a story (ok admittedly this is second hand, but I have faith in the honesty of those who related the story to me) about a couple of principal players (clarinet and trumpt)in a major symphony orchestra who decided to sit in with a very good local dixieland band. They brought sheet music for "When the Saints go Marching In"; the resulting performance was astoundingly bad, although I'm pretty sure they played most of the correct "notes" their style was said to be, umm, rather unusual.

I'm really not trying to bash on classical musicians, well ok maybe a little, but rather I think I am agreeing with some previous posts that swithing from one form of music to another might not be as easy as some people think. Maybe I have some kind of hang-up but if I think I'm going to sound bad, I stay home, so, believe me these whistles aren't going anywhere for a while!

Happy Whistling!

JeffC

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:21 pm

I really think you are comparing apples to oranges when you compare IRTRAD to classical music. I love both, but, they are just too different.

Now I have nothing against the written notation for whatever form of music, but, some types of musical style cannot be conveyed by anything put on paper, it has to be heard and felt. Otherwise it well never be true to type.
It will only be the production of sound based on the written notes.

Since I am an appalachian native, my only comparison would be to imagine hearing someone sit down and play from written "old time" or bluegrass written music. I will guar-ren-tee that it will bear little resembalence to the real thing played when the real folks are "makin' music".

I would imagine true IRTRAD would be the same.

MurphyStout · Post by **MurphyStout** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:22 am

Martin Milner wrote:I'm still in awe of people who play in public, period. Everytime I try, I dang near soil m' britches (full of stitches). Only way I can do it is shut my eyes and pretend everyone is naked.

Yikes Martin, I was in a few of those rooms and I wasn't aware that we were so familiar! Well at least now I know why you look at me with a certain level of admiration. On the bright side you can now answer Ava's question if Az was that hairy all over. But seriously I heard you play in public and you pulled it off rather nicely so you've got the sand for it.

And adding to this debate, I've been learning all my tunes to this date by a mixture of listening to how the tune is played and then cheating by looking at notes to get my bearings on the tunes. Even this is a horrible method of learning tunes and since this trip I vow never to even glance at sheet music or even ABC's because it's holding me back. My ear and brain when it comes to music is so far behind the rest of my playing because of sheet music. Looking at sheet music is the easy way out and the easy way out is not the best in this situation. I mean if you aren't taking it really seriously or you don't want to sound itradish, and you're just out to enjoy yourself sheet music is fine, but if you are serious, depending on sheet music is a handicap.

I guess I'm really not saying anything but I'll try and make some sense. In most cases the sheet music that you find is inaccurate. It doesn't really represent the tune and represent how the tune should be played as people have said before. And if you are using sheet music as a guide you often ignore what the artist is doing because it isn't on the sheet music. You miss tons of stuff that way, you miss phrasing, the breathing spots, variations, ornaments, tongueing, glottals and all the stuff that makes irish music irish. And above all it's easier to remember tunes if you learned how to play them without ever seeing them written down. I know for most of us learning by ourselves, using sheet music is a good way to get your feet wet but the sooner you get off it the better. I just wish I would have listen to people and bit the bullet a year ago when I started but oh well.

Jo C · Post by **Jo C** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:38 am

elliott wrote:In my seven years as a busker in Boston, I can tell you that your income is based far more on the connection you make with your audience than the quality of your music. And if you're playing from sheet music .... you'll make as much money as those classical string quartets whose music is always blowing away (but will at least get an occasional wedding).

I hate to disillusion you elliot, but 'those classical string quartets' make a hell of a lot more than your average decent irish busker - at least they do where I live - and that's after it's been divided 4 ways. The weddings probably earn them slightly less per hour, by the time you've taken one rehersal into account.

Jo.

Guthrum · Post by **Guthrum** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:54 am

Who's that philosopher who once said something about the fact that a falling tree in a forest might not actually be falling if no one is around to see it fall?

I always wondered if the other trees would point at it and laugh.

lddulcimer · Post by **lddulcimer** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:55 am

Just a thought, but I have found over the years that just because a person can play an instrument / sing and read music, that does not make them a musician. (church choirs decimating black spirituals comes quickly to mind) Nor does playing from a sheet of music necessariliy make someone "mechanical".

I have seen people who were considered "good muscians" slaughter virtually every form of music, both with and without sheet music.

I have also seen some amazing performances over the years, again both with and without music.

I don't believe true musicianship can be taught - you either have it or you don't. At some point, those of us who play, hopefully begin to transform into something more than a simple combination of notes on a fingering chart and sheet music. That is the magic. Sadly, not everyone reaches that level, regardless of whether they use sheet music or not.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:08 pm

lddulcimer wrote:I don't believe true musicianship can be taught - you either have it or you don't. At some point, those of us who play, hopefully begin to transform into something more than a simple combination of notes on a fingering chart and sheet music. That is the magic. Sadly, not everyone reaches that level, regardless of whether they use sheet music or not.

I find myself agreeing with this more and more. Time was when I believed that, within some limits, just about anybody could be taught just about anything, and the rest was up to the learner's motivation. I'm not so sure anymore. If that were true, I'd be one crackin' entrepreneur.

lollycross · Post by **lollycross** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 1:11 pm

I busk using sheet music---just too old too remember stuff any more!
It also takes all the nervousness out of it. I can look up and pause
for a secnd to say thank you when they drop money in my case.
I would have to stop to say it anyway, music or not in front of me.
I don't play ITRAD, so no one seems to care.
Lolly

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 1:52 pm

I think there are musical people--they have
music oozing out of their pores, a deep intuitive
feel for music. Musicians have
learned the craft of music. Musical people aren't
always musicians, nor vice versa. Best of all,
are musical people who are musicians.

Surely Nurenburg was better
that day for these folks with their instruments
and sheet music, and the world a somewhat
happier place. We must wish them well.
Five years ago I played whistle on the
streets of Ireland--I was bloody awful, so
awful that I didnt realize how awful I was.
But I made a fair amount of money and
old people came up to me with shining
eyes and said how grand it was to have live
music on the streets.

On the way back to my hotel one
afternoon I passed an Irish adolescent
whistle busking in an empty storefront,
and I realized in a flash what a wretched musician
I was. But I'm still glad I did it.

lddulcimer · Post by **lddulcimer** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 5:11 pm

I think there are musical people--they have
music oozing out of their pores, a deep intuitive
feel for music. Musicians have
learned the craft of music. Musical people aren't
always musicians, nor vice versa. Best of all,
are musical people who are musicians.

Very well said - definitely where I was heading in my thoughts, but I don't think I expressed myself well. :roll:

BTW...I think there is a place for anyone who wants to play music. Music, played by all sorts of people at all levels makes the world a much brighter place. I always am reminded of a lady I attended church with many years ago. She was elderly, stooped and very frail. No one would call her voice beautiful by any means...but I LOVED to hear her sing....she used to sing songs in church with such emotion and genuine passion that you found yourself suddenly not caring about the quality of her voice. The music spoke and spoke volumes. I have heard many singers over the years with beautiful voices who didn't touch me nearly as much as this one frail woman who sang from her passion .

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 5:17 pm

Ha, another St. Louisian! No wonder we agree.
Are you in the hammer dulcimer society? Best, Jim

lddulcimer · Post by **lddulcimer** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:10 pm

I was going regularly for a while, but I was laid off last summer

and in the turmoil of finding a new job, learning the new job, etc. the meetings kinda fell by the wayside. I went last Sunday for the first time in a year. Small turnout, but it felt great to be back.

It is almost like starting over again...I'll have to learn everyone's name from scratch! :roll:

Last weekend we had a gentleman show up to sit in with us who played Irish flute. That was fun. I have thought about taking my whistle to the Irish Sessions on Wed. nights at Music Folk, but I never seem to get free with the kids' activities, etc.