When to start on pipes?

Baen · Post by **Baen** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:56 pm

Hi everyone,
I'm usually on the whistle board, but I come over to the pipes board from time to time. I've only been playing the whistle for a couple of years, but am really hoping to eventually start down the Uilleann Pipes road. To me, nothing sounds so wonderful!

My question is: how long should I work on the whistle before I feel proficient enough to graduate to the pipes? Does anyone go directly to the pipes first? I know that money is the major issue, and that ending up with an expensive instrument that you never play is not what one wants to do.

Also, if one is going to buy a practice set, what makers are well respected? I'm on the west coast of the US. I realize that even if I ordered a set tommorow, it would take many months before it was finished. Lots of practice time on the whistle, in the meantime. I've seen the sets on the Song of the Sea website, and they look very well made.

I've been reading the posts on this board, and like other "lurkers", have also gotten many helpful insights. Thanks to everyone for your generous sharing.

best to all,
Baen

Ailin · Post by **Ailin** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 4:04 pm

If you can't afford a "high end" set, try a David Daye penny chanter practice set. That's what I did until I got my Gallagher set. If you can afford a little extra cost, get it with the leather bag, as the vinyl bag is a bit flimsy and small. I was very happy with my Daye set and learned quite a bit on it. I don't think you will regret it or go wrong if you got one of his sets while waiting for a higher quality set, and it won't take long to get a Daye practice set. The only problem I ever had with it was air tightness, but teflon tape (piper's best friend) always fixed that.
Ailin

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 4:45 pm

To maximize the probablilty of a successful outcome (i.e., to still be playing after several months and feeling like one is making progress), I think anyone taking up the Uilleann pipes should ideally:

1) Have at least a couple of years of experience on another traditional wind instrument, such as whistle or wooden flute, with basic proficiency at doing rolls, cuts, taps, etc.

2) Be able to already play several reels and jigs from memory, to have as starting material.

3) Be able to pick up tunes and techniques by ear.

4) Understand that there is a lot of challenging work ahead of them.

5) Have access to an experienced piper locally for lessons and maintainence questions. If it wasn't for the SoCal piping club, I'd have given up when I first started because I didn't know what I didn't know about setting up and maintaining a set of pipes.

6) Have a very tolerant and understanding spouse. Its going to get ugly for a while...

I agree with the recommendation on the pennychanter. However, don't give up trying to find a used set. I waited exactly 1 day for my Kirk Lynch concert half-set, and less then 6 hours for my BC Childress flat set (both top-of-the-line instruments) because I was willing to go get on an airplane and fly to where the sets were being sold... Nothing beats showing up at the door with cash...

Cheers,

Michael

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:03 pm

Baen wrote:Hi everyone, I'm usually on the whistle board, but I come over to the pipes board from time to time.

Envite your friends over too...the best whistle players I've ever heard were pipers (but don't tell anyone on the whistle board)

No E · Post by **No E** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:33 pm

Baen,

Hook yourself up with the San Fancisco Pipers Club (find one of Ted Anderson's posts and send him a private message).

I believe they meet on the first Sunday of the month. Go to a few meetings, look at some sets in person and ask lots of questions--you'll be glad you did!

No E

Tim Hall · Post by **Tim Hall** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:58 pm

In addition to David Daye's pennychanter, you might want to check out Patrick Murray's sets at http://www.thepiperscut.com. Patrick is a new Boston maker of inexpensive practice sets. I've seen several good reviews of his sets on various Internet forums, and own one myself. Patrick has been nothing but gracious and generous in answering questions, and the set is breaking in nicely. The waiting list was a bit longer than was then listed on the website, but compared to other makers, not long at all, and Patrick informed me of the longer wait up front, and met his delivery estimate.

Hope this helps,

Tim

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:22 pm

Ailin wrote:If you can't afford a "high end" set, try a David Daye penny chanter practice set. That's what I did until I got my Gallagher set. If you can afford a little extra cost, get it with the leather bag, as the vinyl bag is a bit flimsy and small. I was very happy with my Daye set and learned quite a bit on it. I don't think you will regret it or go wrong if you got one of his sets while waiting for a higher quality set, and it won't take long to get a Daye practice set. The only problem I ever had with it was air tightness, but teflon tape (piper's best friend) always fixed that.
Ailin

Hey Bean,

NO NO NO!!!!!!!!! I couldn't NOT reccommend a set more than Daye's Pennychanter. Mine has been a headache from the start, and had I to do it all over again, I'd just save up a couple hundred more and get a REAL chanter/reed set to learn on. Every reed I've gotten from Daye (I'm on the fifth in just over a year due to the others all failing) has had some serious tuning and volume issues.

Anyway, having talked to David a couple times, he's a nice guy, but his service and quality of product have left a lot to be desired. Just one poor newbie's experience with a maker. Perhaps to be taken with whatever salt is handy...

B~

anima · Post by **anima** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:35 pm

screw the whistle and just get some pipes. How long should you play the whislte before "graduating" to the pipes? Well, look at it this way, if you are playing the whistle and not the pipes, then you're not playing the pipes. No time like the present man. You're not getting any younger and the pipes are a long "learn".

Jeff

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:26 am

Eskin the points you make are most likely to put a beginner off and are not relevent really.
1) and 2) are not necessary and you can bring across bad habits with you.
3)if ye can read music ye don't need to be able to play by ear
5) ye can get the beginners video from NPU.
I think the main requirement is enthusiasm and a set of pipes!!

Hello Peter??

Slan go Foill
Liam

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 1:19 am

Hey Liam,

We'll have to agree to disagree... I stick by my suggestions...

I do agree, the NPU videos are very good and a good starting point for learning to play the instrument. However, a considerable number of sets I've seen new players show up with for the first time at our monthly club meetings have been unplayable, requiring some kind of tweaking of reeds, fixing of leaks, adjusting flapper valves, etc. The videos can't replace the advise of an experienced player.

I specifically disagree about sheet music being a replacement for learning by ear from an experienced player or recordings. You can't learn proper piping off a sheet of paper.

My suggestions are what worked for me and other players I know who I respect. There are many paths to the same result...

Cheers,

Michael

MacEachain · Post by **MacEachain** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:56 am

Hi Baen,
I'd tend to agree with what Lorenzo,Anima and Uilliam have said. If the pipes is what you want to play, then start ASAP. If you have any previous experience on whistle/flute it won't do any harm as far as knowing tunes etc (as Michael says) but as a beginner myself I've had to re-learn the tecnique for rolls, to cut using different fingering, to cut notes to grace them as well as to seperate 2 notes the same, (this is a bad explanation, help me out somebody) This is the way I'm being taught but I'm not saying it's the only way. The guy who's teaching me says that when you start to get the hang of the pipes you'll play the whistle like a piper, not play the pipes like a whistler.

Cheers, Mac

PS. Just get a set of pipes

and the Seamus Ennis tutor and NPU videos.

tansy · Post by **tansy** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:43 am

just get a half set that has been checked out by one who knows and begin.
what eskin says about an understanding spouse is Very true, i hope you don't live in an apartment either.
my other half told me that if i was playin pipes like i played guitar when we first met, we wouldn't be togather today. i faked being hurt, but i can see her point.
i am glad i learned to play whistle first, as i don't think i could have gone straight from strings to pipering.
also if money is a big issue you can have just the chanter made and if you are handy, make the rest yourself.
a half set cost about what a not so good used car cost, though just my chanter cost more than my truck

your in for a mighty learneed ride if you jump on this horse--
best, tansy

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:21 am

I can only give my opinion based on my experience as a GHB player and whistler.

I've not (yet...coming soon) got a set of Uilleann pipes, but several times I've been lucky enough to borrow a set from someone who's been willing to let me take them away and play with them for a few hours.

Both whistle playing and GHBing contributed hugely to my abilities to play them. Indeed, I probably have the easiest start possible; I play GHB (so I have a good approach to technique), whistle (I understand the second octave), and SSP, so the bellows is nae bother. The only thing that could possibly help more would be to be Willie Clancy's secret love-child.

Anyway, to the point: Uilleann pipes bring a lot of different skills together. The fewer you have to start from scratch on, the easier you make your own life.

Personally, I would order a decent set, and spend the time waiting learning whistle. Get a (piping) tutor book, and read it and understand it; it makes a huge difference if you understand how something's *supposed* to work when you come to try it, IMO. And a lot of the technique and the music can be practiced on the whistle; crans, for example. Another handy tip I picked up from somewhere is that finger a C natural pipe-style on a whistle actually produces a very nice C natural; this is a habit worth cultivating, I would suggest (I don't know about anyone else, but my experience has been that the C natural is the one note that really does put a roadblock in the tune). Low whistle has advantages - it's a lot easier to get F naturals and Ebs out of them, which makes learning to insert the authentic Irish touches easier.

Everyone's opinion will be different. We all started in different ways, and we all had different backgrounds, which informed our learning differently. So take everyone's opinions with a wee pinch of salt, and do what you think best.

Cheers,
Calum

meir · Post by **meir** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:42 pm

while you are waiting to get pipes, and as long as you are doing whistle, i would do the following:
1. get the NPU video volume one and watch it once.
2. learn every tune on that video- on whistle. if you can learn them by ear from the tape, great. if you need help from the printed notation, so be it. but unless you are irish born and raised, do not learn any tune just from notation. the notation never conveys the feel, the rhythm, etc.
3. at this point you will know 13 easy traditional tunes. now when you do get pipes, you are ahead.
4. want more? get the heather clark tutor plus CD. learn as many tunes as you can from that CD, by ear if possible, with the notation as a reminder only.
5. while you are at it, read the tutor from page 1. you will get great knowledge about pipes that will help you when you do get to that point.
6. when learning ornimentation on the whistle, try to do it as a piper would. explained in the clarke tutor.
7. when you finally get your pipes, don't put down the whistle but continue developing in parallel. use the whistle to learn new tunes and practice your old ones. unless you are very lucky, very talented and very hard working, you will not make anything sounding like music on the pipes for a while. the whistle will give you some musical enjoyment meanwhile.
8. when you get your pipes, learn from both the clark tutor and the video. i think to learn only from the NPU video would be a daunting task. it is very good, but there is alot of info they cannot give you.

hope this helps

meir

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:25 pm

When to start on pipes?

Ideally, at the age of 11 or 12 from an Irish background with musically inclined parents.

Otherwise, absorb yourself into the wealth of recorded music, videos, teaching aids, tutors and internet piping resources. You'll probably want lots of free time to practice, a quality instrument and helpful reed/pipemaker.

Note: this should get you off to a good start... but it's probably only 20% of the total picture. The 80% of your journey is learning what works best for you. Don't get frustrated when opposing advice comes from experienced pipers.

Oh, it's great if the music you make pleases others... you decide if it pleases you.

Chiff and Fipple Forums

When to start on pipes?

When to start on pipes?

Re: When to start on pipes?

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