Differences in "Bernard" & "Colin" O

knorris908 · Post by **knorris908** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:15 am

Good morning all,

Well, it's been a while, and my WHOA got the better of me again. I'm still trying to decide which ALBA I want, so I went ahead and grabbed an Overton (Bernard-style) Low D that was advertised on E-bay ($250.00).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2544023377

So, my question is this, is there a decernable difference between the the Colin and the Bernard non-tunables? I've seen the Colins going for quite a bit less. But this was the first actual Bernard that I've seen so I did the "impulse buy" before I even realized what I had done...

Bloom, Tyghress, Jessie K, and the gang: I look to your considerable expertise in this matter. If you guys truly see a difference, then I suppose that I'll be getting on Mr. Colin Goldie's waiting list as well...

(Or would you simply have me snatch-up the Copeland Low D going for $300.00?)

Thank you all in advance,

Kenneth

pthouron · Post by **pthouron** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:45 am

I don't know about differences between a Bernard and a Colin Low D. I own a Colin tunable Low D and like it quite a lot. I also own an Alba tunable Low D and recommend it highly as well. They (the Overton and Alba) are VERY different in sound and feel. The Alba is more forgiving to a beginner with lower back pressure and a somewhat easier finger spread. The Alba is also MUCH more forginving on your wallet and it is quite stunning aesthetically.

Good Luck!

Patrick

littlejohngael · Post by **littlejohngael** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 8:14 am

Kenneth,

I only know one difference (mentioned to me by Colin Goldie in an email exchange) and that is that Bernard makes his with a bit more of a finger stretch/reach than Colin does.

Little John

raindog1970 · Post by **raindog1970** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:38 am

As for the differences between Bernard's and Colin's whistles, there really are very few... which is really what you'd expect since Colin was taught by Bernard.
Here's what I have noticed by comparing my four Overtons:
(1) Colin signs and dates his whistles, and Bernard doesn't.
(2) Colin smooths the edges of the finger holes, and Bernard doesn't.
(3) Colin sandblasts the inside of the tube, and Bernard doesn't.

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:22 pm

Excellent information. I have a Goldie non-tunable Low D arriving via UPS TODAY! Gonna be a LONG day!

Steven *who used to be royalgoldreps*

knorris908 · Post by **knorris908** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 5:47 pm

Thanks guys!

Kenneth

nickt · Post by **nickt** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 2:09 am

littlejohngael wrote:Kenneth,

I only know one difference (mentioned to me by Colin Goldie in an email exchange) and that is that Bernard makes his with a bit more of a finger stretch/reach than Colin does.

Little John

I'm not sure that's still the case, my BO low D has Bernard's "new" close hole design (for 2-3 years now) and plays gloriously. Mind you, Colin and Bernard do keep in touch regularly so Colin ought to know...

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 7:27 am

Yes, they keep in touch. The Goldies were just over to visit Bernard recently in fact.

I get the sense that Colin has been perfecting his art of the past years. There are many subtle things that have changed, or perhaps I should say, many ways in which Colin can adjust the whistle to you desires. I've never been in touch with Bernard, so I don't know. But if you speak to people like Brian Finnegan of Flook, who play Colin's whistles exclusively now, they'll tell you that Colin's whistles are improving constantly and that he works very closely with the player. Loren recently pointed out that tha backpressure/low breath thing, the hallmark of Overtons, is not quite true anymore because Colin will make you easy-blowing whistles that have different breath characteristics but still have that wonderful Overton sound. The best thing is to talk to the maker and to try before you buy. (Although I would buy any of Colin's whistles blindly.)

Jo C · Post by **Jo C** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 3:49 pm

Does that mean mine's a Bernard? It's not signed and has a larger reach than the (very few) other overton low Ds I've tried. I bought it from Hobgoblin 5-6 years ago (I tried all the low whistles they had and that one was best).

Jo.

brendan ring · Post by **brendan ring** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:08 am

I too would buy any of Colins whistles blindly. I have a low D, low F ,two low C's and a low Bflat. They are all brilliant, there is no variation in quality. I think it's fair to say that Colin can make you any whistle you want, as long as you know what that is! I recently tried lots of his whistles including several low Ds. They all had slightly different qualities but I would have gone into a recording studio quite happily with any of them. Great customer service too!

nickt · Post by **nickt** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:12 am

Jo C wrote:Does that mean mine's a Bernard? It's not signed and has a larger reach than the (very few) other overton low Ds I've tried. I bought it from Hobgoblin 5-6 years ago (I tried all the low whistles they had and that one was best).

Jo.

Almost certainly a BO original

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:49 am

brendan ring wrote:I too would buy any of Colins whistles blindly. I have a low D, low F ,two low C's and a low Bflat. They are all brilliant, there is no variation in quality. I think it's fair to say that Colin can make you any whistle you want, as long as you know what that is! I recently tried lots of his whistles including several low Ds. They all had slightly different qualities but I would have gone into a recording studio quite happily with any of them. Great customer service too!

Hey Brendan, I hope you do go into a recording studio with lots of Overtons again soon. When I got another whistle from Colin, I had them send along Troublesome Things. Great stuff, wonderul whistling!

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:51 am

nickt wrote:
Jo C wrote:Does that mean mine's a Bernard? It's not signed and has a larger reach than the (very few) other overton low Ds I've tried. I bought it from Hobgoblin 5-6 years ago (I tried all the low whistles they had and that one was best).

Jo.
Almost certainly a BO original

Yup. When Bernard handed over things he aparantly stopped making whistles for a while and then started again on a smaller scale, selling them through a few outlets in the US, like Hobgoblin. I bought my first Overton (a Bernard O) second-hand from someone who had gotten it at Hobgoblin. (I don't think Colin was signing his whisltes 5, 6 years ago already, however.)

Jo C · Post by **Jo C** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:02 am

Bloomfield wrote:
nickt wrote:
Jo C wrote:Does that mean mine's a Bernard? It's not signed and has a larger reach than the (very few) other overton low Ds I've tried. I bought it from Hobgoblin 5-6 years ago (I tried all the low whistles they had and that one was best).

Jo.
Almost certainly a BO original
Yup. When Bernard handed over things he aparantly stopped making whistles for a while and then started again on a smaller scale, selling them through a few outlets in the US, like Hobgoblin. I bought my first Overton (a Bernard O) second-hand from someone who had gotten it at Hobgoblin. (I don't think Colin was signing his whisltes 5, 6 years ago already, however.)

that's cool. I'd always wondered. I actually bought mine in the UK, from the branch in Bristol.

Goldie · Post by **Goldie** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:22 pm

I just came across this thread and thought I would add a few words.

raindog1970: As for the differences between Bernard's and Colin's whistles, there really are very few... which is really what you'd expect since Colin was taught by Bernard.
Here's what I have noticed by comparing my four Overtons:
(1) Colin signs and dates his whistles, and Bernard doesn't.
(2) Colin smooths the edges of the finger holes, and Bernard doesn't.
(3) Colin sandblasts the inside of the tube, and Bernard doesn't.

Thanks Gary, that is the main differences. The hole sizes and placement of the finger holes on all of Bernard's whistles and mine will be different, some by very little some by a lot as we develop this independently.

nickt: I'm not sure that's still the case, my BO low D has Bernard's "new" close hole design (for 2-3 years now) and plays gloriously. Mind you, Colin and Bernard do keep in touch regularly so Colin ought to know...

As far as I know Bernard's standard Low D is a wider stretch and a shorter stretch on request whereas my standard Low D is the shorter stretch and big hole/wider stretch on request. You and Bloomie are right, we do keep in contact by phone a lot and I was over there not so long ago.

Bloomfield: Loren recently pointed out that tha backpressure/low breath thing, the hallmark of Overtons, is not quite true anymore because Colin will make you easy-blowing whistles that have different breath characteristics but still have that wonderful Overton sound.

This is quite true. I have enough experience now making these whistles by hand to know what effects what in tone and playability and if anyone does have anything specific they are looking for I would recommend coming direct as the whistles that I supply to shops are fine whistles but there maybe a spectrum of playability and tone amongst them. I know from myself and players I met over the years, they all may have different ideas of what is their favourite whistle, what suits one player may not suit another. Loren has been telling me for the last couple of years to stamp hard or soft blow on the whistles so people may have an idea but what I call hard and soft can be different from other players. Besides which what about the ones that are somewhere in the middle...

JoC: Does that mean mine's a Bernard? It's not signed and has a larger reach than the (very few) other overton low Ds I've tried. I bought it from Hobgoblin 5-6 years ago (I tried all the low whistles they had and that one was best).

Bernard had stopped supplying Hobgoblin for a few years and he started supplying them again in 1998. All whistles made by Phil and myself would have been stamped Overton (as this was part of the license agreement) or a few were stamped OV. I also either stamped CSG before the Overton or I signed it inside as I still do. I started signing them shortly after first making them so they could be identified later if need be. If it has no Overton stamp on there then it is not an Overton no matter what the seller told you. Bernard first started stamping his whistles 20/25 or even more years ago after a shop in Ireland started putting their sticker on the whistles saying it was their brand. I saw one of these last year in Rudolstadt.

Brendan: I too would buy any of Colins whistles blindly. I have a low D, low F ,two low C's and a low Bflat. They are all brilliant, there is no variation in quality. I think it's fair to say that Colin can make you any whistle you want, as long as you know what that is! I recently tried lots of his whistles including several low Ds. They all had slightly different qualities but I would have gone into a recording studio quite happily with any of them. Great customer service too!

Bloomfield: (Although I would buy any of Colin's whistles blindly.)

Danke fuer die Blumen (thanks for the flowers) and the trust in my work, it is much appreciated.

Myself and Brigitte had the luck to meet up with Brendan and his lovely wife recently. It was great to hear a few of his tunes from the CD played live. He was kind enough to play some of them slowed down so I could have a chance to learn them. I am working on Kushkas/MaverickAngels at the moment. Well so far I can play it quite o.k. at the speed HE calls "slow" but at "normal CD" speed I drop out after the first bar

Same thoughts as Bloomie, incredible CD, the more I listen to it the more I appreciate it. If you have not got it, go for it as it maybe hard to find a copy in the near future.

Hope I have not be too long winded here.

Tschüss
Colin