Tell us something.: "Tell us something" hits me a bit like someone asking me to tell a joke. I can always think of a hundred of them until someone asks me for one. You know how it is. Right now, I can't think of "something" to tell you. But I have to use at least 100 characters to inform you of that.
First of all, yes, I do get mildly annoyed by the stabs at President Bush. We all know you're not his greatest fan. I think he's doing a pretty good job under the circumstances.
Whew, thanks for letting me get that off my chest.
Now, having said that, I don't understand why it seems to bother some people that Americans aren't ashamed of being Americans. (I'm not talking about ignorant American tourists here; most of us aren't like that) I don't think there's a thing in the world wrong with an American acting, talking, and thinking like an American. Some people seem to think that diversity is a great thing...as long as we all think exactly the same way. Does diversity mean that everyone has to embrace every culture? Or does it mean that we should all be who we are and do our best to accept others?
So my advice is do your thing, your way. I would prefer that you give Mr. Bush a break. I would prefer that people from other countries refrain from screaming "Brainwashing!" just because I happen to like the guy. But I also have to realize that not everyone is quite as enlightened as I am. Your European friend didn't like the site so he unsubscribed, very politely. No big deal in my book. It just sounds like the way things are supposed to work.
If I were you I'd just tell him that it's your website and if he doesn't like it too dang bad, he can go stuff it.
<i>The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.</i>
There's a more important question here: You haven't offended me much, Dale, and I've only considered unsubscribing a couple of times, so WHY DON'T I RECEIVE THE NEWLETTER?!? I not only didn't know there was a "yesterday's" issue, I didn't know there was a June issue. Do only the people who are easily offended get them? I can be just as easily offended as the next person, just ask the chatters.
Please unsubscribe me from the unsubscribed list and subscribe me to the subscriber's list.
Susan
I think Americans are great folks, in general.
We're pragmatic, friendly, kindly, egalitarian, hopeful
independent and we're not dragging around hundreds of years
of grievances. Generally being a mall crawling
gum chewing American beats the culture
that preceded, in my opinion--having escaped
an ethnic culture myself by dissappearing into the
wilds of America. We don't go round muttering
'Those Bosnians....we'll get even for what
they did to us in 1639.'
The dark side to that is that we're violent--
classes and castes keep people apart and
make for peace. Friendly people get into more
trouble. In India I often saw situations
that would have erupted into violence
in the USA that didn't there because the people
didn't want to touch each other for caste
reasons.
Also we're extraordinarily ignorant about the
rest of the world, many of us, living on this
vast, wealthy island, with an educational
system that routinely graduates illiterates
from university.
Abroad we're fine and folks like us well enough,
in my experience. We pay our bills, we're freindly,
we're interested and open minded. We don't come across as
arrogant (as do quite a few tourists from other
countries).
In Haupitale in Ceylon I tried to get a room in
a guest house. Krishna, the young fellow who ran it,
asked for five times the normal rate. I said I would
look elsewhere and he cried: 'Stop, don't go.
I didn't realize you are Amercian. I thought you
were German. They pay ANYTHING' You can tell
where the German tourists go in Asia, because
the children have become beggars.
On the other hand I have had close friends
in Asia, with whom I traveled, who were German.
Klaus, whom I met in Kabul--we hitchhiked around
India together.
There is, I think, little comprehension in Europe of
the USA. The chief reason, as far as I can tell,
is that people have few facts. But also there
is an animus--people feel like we're silly
rude yet puritanical children, who need
instruction from their more sophisticated
and worldly elders. During the impeachment
my German aunt in Munich explained to me:
'What matters is that the leader gets the
economic job done! The rest is details!'
And she thumped the table.
'Thank you for your politcal guidance,'
I almost responded. 'We've learned so
much from you already!'
But that doesn't mean that none of the
European objections to our foreign policy
are correct.
The bottom line is that a rich and powerful nation
is going to be resented, no matter what it does.
Simple envy will see to that, and a feeling
of inferiority (especially in the third world).
Human beings are pretty simple,
finally. That means that if we succeed
we will be resented--e.g. for winning
the Cold War.
Of course our own stupidity and mistakes
have a lot to do with it. Still,
when you consider the awesome power
we wield, and our relative newness,
we haven't done so badly. Consider
the Soviets, the Chinese, the Third
Reich....It could be much, much worse.
As a descendant of one of the
'huddled masses yearning to breathe free,'
I thank my lucky stars for the New World.
It's surprising to find so many promises kept.
As to Bush-bashing, etc. well,
the party in power should take it on
the chin, shouldn't it? What folks
sometimes object to is the self-congratulatory
moral and intellectual elitism of some
anti-Republican stabs. But I don't care,
as long as we keep the White House.
So I think the board is doing OK,
an international community that's
really a community will have
some international tensions in
a time of international disagreement.
And some intranational disagreements.
It could all be more peaceful if we
were a whistle club, or if--better still-
we had a Czar. I propose Bloomfield. Best to all
Last edited by jim stone on Sat Jul 05, 2003 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
didymus wrote:I disagree with burnsbyrne idea for other nationalities to send in anti-american jokes. Eventually, that will lead Americans to send in Italian jokes, Polish jokes, et all... That will lead to some hard feelings all the way around. If people find something offensive to them on this board, as I do with some of the postings on this thread, then simply ignore the thread in the future.
Just my two cents and now I will take my own advice and not follow this thread any longer.
Truly best wishes to all,
Frank
Frank,
I am surprised by your displeasure. One of the early posters to this thread stated that he was tired of the USA-centered jokes. He implied that Americans would not laugh at jokes aimed at them. I thought I was simply suggesting the we test the theory by hearing some good political humor from Europe. I was not intending to start a flame war. In fact, I am very surprised that anyone took offence. If I have offended, I apologize.
Mike
Tell us something.: I used to be a regular then I took up the bassoon. Bassoons don't have a lot of chiff. Not really, I have always been a drummer, and my C&F years were when I was a little tired of the drums. Now I'm back playing drums. I mist the C&F years, though.
Well as one who never partisipates in political threads, or brings up personnal subjects, and never feels anything but a robotic coldness and detachment from the other contributars to the board I just don`t know what that guy was talking about. :roll:
I agree with most everything people have said on this thread, but I'd like to suggest two BIG reasons that Americans have trouble understanding the rest of the world, and the rest of the world has trouble understanding Americans: 1. the Atlantic ocean. 2. the Pacific ocean.
The fact is, even in this age of relatively easy travel, we're still cut off from the rest of the world, and they from us. Plus, America is a far larger and more diverse nation, with a far more complicated history, than most of us realize--let alone non-Americans. Think about it. How long would it take, and how much extra travel, for an outsider to truly be able to say that they really know and understand "America" and "Americans"? Or consider, what per cent of Americans, in any given period of our history, can trace their American ancestors back for more than 50 years? 100 years? 150 years? That certainly should complicate stereotypes of our past and present.
Another sad fact, our news media and entertainment industry do us no favors by filling the world with material to feed anti-American stereotypes. Sure I've been embarrassed by Americans I've encountered abroad--even intensely embarrassed--but other countries have their share of jerks, too, and I've met some of them as well.
I do have to add that I found henke's statement that our search for oil has led to more deaths than were caused by the Soviets to be, well, just weird. Estimates of the deaths caused by the Soviets within the old USSR range from 20-50 million people. Zubivka, no wild eyed fan of the US, could undoubtedly add a few words about events in Ukraine. A conservative estimate of deaths directly attributable to Communist repression in China is 60 million. As Stoner said, considering our power and potential, our record, while far from unblemished, isn't that bad. Plus, we may wave the flag too much, but we are willing to criticize ourselves, too.
Oh, and Dale, yes I get offended occasionaly, no I don't subscribe to your newsletter, but keep on truckin'!
Yes he did, but at the end of the day the media
tried to protect him (e.g. by suppressing stories
that could have destroyed him). It's hard
to deny that there is a widespread
antii-conservative bias at large in the American
media, especially on social issues.
As a consequence conservatives sometimes
over-react to innocent political lampooning
of conservative politicians.
Basically, it comes down to the same problem that has faced humans since time began....the issue of US vs. THEM.
If you aren't one of our tribe, you are different and different can be dangerous to our way, so kill THEM.
The men who designed the USA's political system wanted seperation of church and state. A really good idea. History more than proves this although we always forget.
If it's a whistle site, keep it about whistles.
To discuss politics, religion or something other than whistles just opens the door for war when you take a jab at the other guy.
In here, I'm a whistler and that's all that I want to be...in here.
I think there's a very big difference between taking swipes at a public figure and taking swipes at a nationality. I honestly do find offensive all humor that depends on the put down of a nationality, a people, especially since making banjo players the butt of the joke almost always works better anyway.
I must say that C&F has been a "cultural" experience to me, for a great deal of my life I knew very little about the countries "across the pond" but since joining the chiffboard I have maybe mutiplied that knowledge by 100 times. Because of my exiperiences with the board, I have been given the desire to go to ireland some day.
Also, Ive always considered the internet to be a culture unto itself, and if I hadnt been up so late lighting off fireworks, Id try to explain that more, but my brain just fried itself.
I usually don't participate in the political discussions on the board but I'm going to add my opinion here.
I agree with Wyobadger in that I'm tired of being expected to apologize to the rest of the world for being American. While my country is far from perfect and I don't agree with everything its leaders do, I think it's a pretty darn nice place to live and I am glad I was born here. And I will stand up and say so.
I also agree with elendil that our size and relative isolation make us difficult to understand and vice versa to other countries. I've know several people from other countries who were very surprised when they came here for the first time at how big America is. And elendil's right in that many Americans don't understand America. And what is America? New York City with its millions of people? Darien Wisconsin population 1500, proud home of Cornfest? Dallas Texas or Seattle Washington?
Ok now I'm starting to ramble so I'll shut up now.
Beth
Wash your hands. Cough and sneeze in your sleeve. Stay home if you are sick. Stay informed. http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu for more info.
Your European friend didn't like the site so he unsubscribed, very politely. No big deal in my book. It just sounds like the way things are supposed to work.
