Where's the Second Octave?

joey_schu · Post by **joey_schu** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 7:58 am

Hey everyone,

Have I ever told you how much I love my pipes? This set has the PERFECT sound for me. I can't get enough of it.

HOWEVER, as the weather does cartwheels down here, I've completely lost my second octave. I dug up a back D, but only with this funky recorder-style fingering O OXXOOOO. Weird. Anything above that just doesn't sound. I push the bag to the max, but still nothing. I don't want to explode it.

I KNOW it's the reed. It explains my other problems, too. Ever since they came here from England, the second octave has been EXTREMELY hard to hit, which I know isn't the norm with this design of pipes. I need to get a new local reed made. Any recommendations of reedmakers in the South East (South Carolina) area? Any technique tips to make due in the meantime?

I was thinking, maybe if I get up to the East Coast Tionol, maybe I could get her fixed up up there...

Thanks,
Joey

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:04 am

contact Pat Sky
Follow this link... he's listed near the bottom:
http://www.pipers-hut.com/UPIL/makers.html#makers:USA

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:14 am

Joey, just playing the chanter (drones off) does much air pass through the reed/chanter while playing in the upper octave (yet no sound), or does it feel like the reed has closed up (no air coming out of the bag) and volume diminishes almost to nothing?

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:15 am

Sounds like your reed is too open. Have Pat Sky show you how to adjust it, there may be nothing wrong with that reed other than needing an attitude adjustment

.

edited to correct a typo

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:21 am

Don't stop off at the East Coast tionól.
Keep on going till you hit West Clare and settle there.
Mild, humid weather guaranteed all year round. Just ask Peter.

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:30 am

Joey,

I've never been to SC, but if your humidity is anywhere near as bad as NC, then you surely won't have to worry about getting a "dry" reed made.

Take the chanter reed out and try moving the bridle up or down in 0.5 mm increments. Suck on the staple end (never the cane end) to see if you can get a "crow" sound. Use a tuner to see if you can get a crow at approx G (for a D concert reed). Note - this may affect your tuning if you have to move it too much to get a crow.

Don't be tempted to start changing the scrape of your reed. You would do better to get an experienced reed maker (Patrick Sky has been mentioned as he is near you) to check the reed. Don't start scraping unless you know what you're doing. It takes very little to screw your reed permanently. PSky is also the driving force behind the East Coast Tional, so you're bound to catch up with him one way or another.

http://www.uilleann.com/tionol/2003/index.html

djm

stew · Post by **stew** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:44 pm

I agree with Pat, but don't scrape or alter the reed, the right adjustments
will bring the reed back into playability again.

joey_schu · Post by **joey_schu** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:24 pm

Thanks everyone.

Lorenzo, what happens is I give the bag the extra squeeze to flip it up, but the note stays steady in the low octave. Actually, it feels like the chanter kind of locks up and won't let the extra air through, and the bag won't deflate any faster no matter how much pressure I apply. And the note stays steady in the low octave the whole time - usually it doesn't even break or warble as I lay it on the bag.

This means....? It makes sense that the bridle may be too tight, but I have zero knowledge about reeds.

Thanks,
Joey

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:48 pm

Joey...It's probaly best to talk to your reed maker. But just guessing, it sounds like the reed is open too much. and thus probably too loud. Second octave F# and G should be soooo easy to pop, pop, pop...just like that with hardly any extra bag pressure. Before you do anything to the reed either get another piper to try it first, or email and call one of us so we can hear it playing.

If you just got the reed from England, let it sit for a couple of weeks, play in the lower octave and make sure the room is humid.

djm has the right advice in the post above.

anima · Post by **anima** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:55 pm

Joey, try closing off all the vents, increase bag pressure, then open the notes. You should now be in the 2nd octave, anything above high G may be difficult to maintain without special fingerings or a run up the scale.

Jeff

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:14 pm

Jeff is right...close all finger holes and only lift the index or middle finger (G or F#) with a little extra pressure. Bottom of chanter must also be sealed shut on you knee (or on the leather popping strap).

We tend to take things for granted!

MacEachain · Post by **MacEachain** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 4:00 pm

Hi Joey,
As a beginner myself I can sympathise. I had a lesson today and part of it was playing in the 2nd octave. I was told not to try to jump straight into anything from G upwards but to slide into it from F#. This is mentioned in the Seamus Ennis tutor. (note the slide from F# should be quick enough that it doesn't sound like a slide. The exercise I was given was to play Back D, F#, Back D and keep repeating untill you are familiar with the pressure change (controlling the pressure with your bag arm).Then add the G, sliding into it from F#, D > F# G > D etc. You just keep adding the next note up to B. Sometimes if you jump straight into a 2nd octave note and apply too much pressure the reed will close and the bag seems to lock or as you say it sticks in the 1st octave. It's probably best, as other's with more experience have already said, not to touch the reed too much, ie don't do anything that you can't reverse. Don't worry about it, practice something else and see if the reed sorts itself out after a day or 2. One other thing, I have to say that I've got the greatest respect for all you guys who have/had to learn without a teacher, the guy who's teaching me is only 15 or so miles away and I still find it extremely difficult. Anyway, that's how it's been for me, it might not work for your chanter.

All the Best, Mac

joey_schu · Post by **joey_schu** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:26 pm

Hey Mac,

Is that your Stephenson chanter?

Joey

MacEachain · Post by **MacEachain** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:46 pm

Hi Joey,
No sorry, it's a Pakistani chanter that was reeded for me by the guy who's teaching me. There's a pic on the "Pictures of your pipes" thread. http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... c&start=60 I don't have a chanter from Davy yet.

Cheers Mac

joey_schu · Post by **joey_schu** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 7:52 pm

Yeah sorry Mac. Honestly my brain's not processing things today. I knew that. Haha!

My mix up.

Thanks for the advice, though!

Joey