Artists vs. Green Linnet - Buy from GL? Read this.

DazedinLA · Post by **DazedinLA** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:52 am

Trad artists are not secretive folks....Lunasa and Eileen Ivers and all these folks have their own websites and addresses and etc, and there is nothing stopping any of us from writing them a check and a supportive note if we have heard one of their CDs and enjoyed it.

My girlfriend and I have purchased many CDs from GL. I am saddened that the combination of unscrupulous behavior by record companies, combined with the technological capacity for consumer CD bootlegging ultimately harms the starving trad artist the most.

We can all be angry at GL for what they are doing, but in all fairness, I issue all of you a good-natured challenge: send the GL Five an "appreciation and support" check in an amount that seems right to you. If course, noone on this board would ever have in their possession a burned copy of any GL recording, but if hypothetically this were the case, then maybe sending the artist a "direct royalty" would be a nice and proper thing anyway.

Just a thought.

DAZED

rossmpfc13 · Post by **rossmpfc13** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 3:19 pm

msheldon wrote:
rossmpfc13 wrote:Hey look,
Don't go jumping down GL's throat before you know all of the details. Remember, that information can't be 100% accurate, considering that Eileen Ivers does not use Green Linnet anymore. Remember that it says that she was one of the people taking legal action, well, she uses a fancy Sony label now. Proving that most or NONE of that information is necessarily true.
How do you figure?

Just because she's not currently with them does not mean that she may not have legal action pending against them for past issues.

By your logic, if my bank mishandles my accounts, and I switch banks, I can no longer hold them accountable for the lost funds.

I'd say there's no proof here, one way or the other. The other posts are based on rumor or second/third-hand statements, whereas yours is based on an illogical assumption.

no, you misunderstand me. I'm saying exactly what you are: we can't assume ANYTHING, no matter who it is in favor of, until we have proof that this is or is not true. As for Eileen, it has been several years for her on Sony and why she would wait until now would puzzle me. No matter, we are in agreement (I assume, unless you have some other viewpoint).

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 4:09 am

msheldon wrote:
rossmpfc13 wrote:Hey look,
Don't go jumping down GL's throat before you know all of the details. Remember, that information can't be 100% accurate, considering that Eileen Ivers does not use Green Linnet anymore. Remember that it says that she was one of the people taking legal action, well, she uses a fancy Sony label now. Proving that most or NONE of that information isn't necessarily true.
How do you figure?

Just because she's not currently with them does not mean that she may not have legal action pending against them for past issues.

By your logic, if my bank mishandles my accounts, and I switch banks, I can no longer hold them accountable for the lost funds.

I'd say there's no proof here, one way or the other. The other posts are based on rumor or second/third-hand statements, whereas yours is based on an illogical assumption.

I'm similarly puzzled by Ross's reasoning, but I can confirm, since I was present at the time, that Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh of Altan advised an upcoming band here in Belgium against signing to GL because they are so bad at paying royalties. The reason why the artist victims have been so slow to sue is presumably the cost of legal action: the amounts owed have to be really substantial before it becomes worth while taking the risk of being saddled with a legal bill and with still no royalties coming in because the company continues to evade its liabilities.

BTW I always wondered why there are so many Altan compilations. Now I know!

carrie · Post by **carrie** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:40 am

I've spoken with a musician who has recorded with a big name label, asking what consumers can do to support the artists. The advice, echoing Dazed's:

Buy directly from the artist. Go to gigs, buy the CDs there, get them autographed, or do the same from the artists' own websites.

Carol

susnfx · Post by **susnfx** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:45 am

Thanks so much, Carol! That certainly answers it for me.

Susan

Switchfoot · Post by **Switchfoot** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:14 pm

jim stone wrote:Makes one glad to be an amateur.
Imagine the trouble I might have had
if I'd had talent!

Ah yes, instrumental being the only type of music that you must actually have talent in order to do well (just look at billboards top 40)

Oh yes, bad green linnet, bad, smack them all upside the head with a rolled up newspaper (with a brick inside) or a radioactive enhanced guppy (i know someones got one around)

energy · Post by **energy** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:07 pm

FJohnSharp wrote:So, if one wants to buy 'Redwood' that is not a GL product, is there a way to get a foreign version?

I haven't checked, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that you could get it direct from the Lunasa website.

http://www.lunasa.ie

TomB · Post by **TomB** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:40 am

energy wrote:
FJohnSharp wrote:So, if one wants to buy 'Redwood' that is not a GL product, is there a way to get a foreign version?
I haven't checked, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that you could get it direct from the Lunasa website.

http://www.lunasa.ie

Actually, it dossen't appear that you can buy it from their website.

All the Best, Tom

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:10 am

Take a look at the Shannaquay website...Steve has a great selection, and he's kindly gotten me albums that weren't available here (including one that I hadn't a clue about its name...he hunted it down and had it shipped out to me).

susnfx · Post by **susnfx** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:44 am

Good suggestion, Tyghress. And the same goes for Celtic Grooves. Phillippe is wonderful at identifying and finding things.

www.celticgrooves.com

Susan

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:58 am

Cut'n'pasted from the <a href=http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?thread ... >Mudcat</a>:

Subject: RE: Green Linnett Screws Artists
From: GUEST,enul@starpower.net - PM
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 10:23 AM

Someone on this thread asked to hear from Lisa Null about the Green Linnet Affair so I'm posting what I sent yesterday to publore. I'm not sure I can shed much light on the specifics of this current complaint, but I can provide some background context. Maybe it will help:

As an original cofounder of Green Linnet with Pat Sky, back in 1971, it
is with some anxiety that I have been following the recent discussion
about that company. I subsidized Green Linnet as long as I could and
eventually passed it on gratis to our employee, Wendy Newton, with the
hope that she would continue developing it into a financially and
ethically sounddpurveyer of traditional and roots-based music. Wendy
loved the emerging Celtic hybrid sound which seemed to have more
commercial potential than the minimally accompanied vocal materials and
simply-recorded tunes which had originally impelled Pat Sky and myself
into the record business. We took pride in our original roster of
musicians, which included Seamus Ennis, Peter Bellamy, Joe Heaney, Paddy
Tunney, Rosalie Sorrels, and Debby McClatchy with the Red Clay Ramblers.
Still, it was post-Bothy Band jigs and reels which quickened Wendy's
heart.

I developed confidence in Wendy early on-- she handled my personal
bills, bank account, and household while I toured as a singer. The
emerging portrait of Wendy as an avaricious and exploitive manipulator
of musical talent has made little sense to me in light of this earlier
experience. I have suggested to Wendy that she respond to such charges,
but she hesitates to do so. She feels such negative stereotypes are
emerging from legal issues best worked out through mediation or in a
court of law rather than in the court of public opinion.

We do not talk about business much because our roles resemble that of
natural versus adoptive parent. I do know, however, that much of Green
Linnet's staff has remained with the company over the years and that,
without yielding durable profits, the company has been able to provide
medical insurance and a living wage to a small, stable work force. Wendy
acknowledges that she owes some musicians back royalties but tells me
she is paying them off. She believes that her books and contracts are in
order and open to inspection.

Whatever the sense of wrong the plaintiffs (reduced from 5 to 3) feel
and whatever specifics gave rise to this press release, the story is
surely more complex, not easily abstracted into a cause celebre on
behalf of put-upon folk primitives. That tale has been told again and
again, and folklorists have not always been militant enough in
protecting those victimized by the system. The essence of the Green
Linnet story, though, is likely to lie in the struggles between
musicians and a small business all trying to rise up out of a backporch
economy and to gain for themselves a semblence of economic legitimacy.

energy · Post by **energy** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:30 pm

Found this regarding the Lunasa and Green Linnet situation:

http://www.tradmusic.com/newspage.asp?newsID=368

msheldon · Post by **msheldon** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 1:20 am

energy wrote:Found this regarding the Lunasa and Green Linnet situation:

Well, it certainly does explain a lot.

What it doesn't explain, however, is what, if anything, is to be done for the consumers who purchased the inferior copies of Redwood. There's no question in my mind that the copy I have is of inferior quality. I've not been impressed with the sound quality at all.

I'm happy that Lunasa was able to get clear of GL, and to reach a workable settlement for themselves. But, it looks like those of us who rushed to get their latest recording have been left to fend for ourselves.

johnkerr · Post by **johnkerr** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:25 am

msheldon wrote: What it doesn't explain, however, is what, if anything, is to be done for the consumers who purchased the inferior copies of Redwood. There's no question in my mind that the copy I have is of inferior quality. I've not been impressed with the sound quality at all.

Then you should return it to Green Linnet and ask to have it exchanged for a copy made from the correct master. Green Linnet's official position on this, to paraphrase quotes from Wendy Newton that have appeared in various articles/news releases about the Lunasa controversy, is "Everybody loves the album. We've heard nothing but praise. It's our fastest selling album ever. Thus there must not be any problem with those copies we pressed and sold from the unauthorized first master." Your return, followed by returns from others, could help to burst their bubble.

If you bought the CD directly from Green Linnet via mail order, mail it back to them and ask for a correct copy in exchange. If they are operating as a reputable mail order business, they should pay both the postage for you to return the CD to them as well as the postage to mail you back a good copy. This is standard practice in mail order when a dealer ships defective merchandise. It's their mistake, they pay for it.

If you bought from a store, dealer or other distributor, return it to the point of purchase and ask for an exchange. There should be no question on this; they will give you a new copy and ship the defective one you give them either back to their distributor or straight back to Green Linnet for credit. A straight exchange of defective merchandise for good merchandise should never be a problem. If you want to get a refund, though, that could be problematical.

If the new copy you get also happens to be defective, repeat the process until you reach satisfaction.

susnfx · Post by **susnfx** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:29 am

That link is no longer any good. Anybody want to give us a summary of what it said?
(I did some searching on the site and found an article from March detailing Lunasa's version of what happened. Was this the article you're referring to, energy?)
Susan