More newbie questions... fingering C natural and high D

[Stoo3]

I notice there are multiple fingeres for C natural. I've been using er... hole two and three covered only for it so far. I see there are a few others that one of my books lables as easier to use down the road when I get into more complicated songs. i.e. going from C natural to other notes might be more difficult with the hole two/three fingering. Anyone have any input on this? I hope I made sense.

Also, high D... I see one can overblow low D to get it, or leave hole 1 open. I read that learning to get used to hole 1 being open was better in case you move to flute or something later... any input on this either?

Thanks.

-Stu

[morgan]

For C natural, OXX OOO is the best, if it's in tune on your whistle. You can also play XOO OOO and cover only half the hole. This second way is the only way to get C nat in the upper octave.

Yes, uncover the first hole for high D. You can play with it covered but the sound is better open. For the highest D (the third one) it will only work with the first hole open. You can also get an E one step higher like this: XXO XXO but it needs lots of air, and cats and farm animals will die when you play it.

[Bretton]

Hi Stu, I use oxxooo (holes 2&3) almost exclusively. The only other fingering I ever use for C-natural is to cover hole 1 half way (half-hole). Half-holing working well if you're sliding up to C-natural from B and then back down.

However!, many people use other fingerings to play C-nat, and some whistles require these other fingerings to play a C-nat. in tune.

I'm sure others will chime in with details...



-Brett

[Ridseard]

You can also play XOO OOO and cover only half the hole. This second way is the only way to get C nat in the upper octave.

The only way? Hmmmm...............

[Redwolf]

It REALLY seems to depend on the whistle. I have a couple (Elfsong and Busman) that absolutely require 0XX 000, I have a couple (Generation and Hoover) that absolutely require 0XX X0X and one (Dixon) that seems happy with either. And isn't it the Sindt that requires a half-holed C nat.?

As far as second octave D goes, I don't notice much difference in tone between venting and not venting...venting just ensures the note won't drop.

Redwolf

[Tyghress]

You can also play XOO OOO and cover only half the hole. This second way is the only way to get C nat in the upper octave.

The only way? Hmmmm...............

I was gonna say that! My 2nd C is OXXXXO. I do nat's every way from halfholing to OXXOOX or even more fingers, and nearly every other combination, depending on how fast the tune is, and what note I'm going from and to...BCB makes sense half holing... DCD makes sense lifting as few fingers as possible. I'm not sure if this is a good idea, using so many different fingerings, but it works for me.

Same with the middle D, I'll do OXXXXX or XXXXXX depending on what's going on around that note. I don't make a conscious choice. But I did have to relearn the D to simply over blow and not lift a finger.

[Ridseard]

You can also play XOO OOO and cover only half the hole. This second way is the only way to get C nat in the upper octave.

The only way? Hmmmm...............

I was gonna say that!

Great minds....

[jim stone]

At the beginning crossfingering the C natural
is fine. another way is oxoxxx.

But gradually introducing half holing
greatly simplifes fingering and leads
to fluid playing, I've found. Learning this
was tough but worth it. Patience.
You start doing it on slow stuff,
then practice till you can do it
fast.

[McHaffie]

Everyone pretty much has said it all, but here's my 2 cents to agree and what not

crossfingering is USUALLY (note the emphasis) the quicker, flowier way to get your C nat, and various other chrom notes, however, don't forget your sliding half holes on your slow aires.... when I started out on whistle, all I played were slow aires because that's what I could manage, and I got purdy darn good at them. After I started learning jigs and reels, and started learning rolls, crans, taps, cuts, etc... I got so into learning it that I've had to re-teach myself a little to use those half holes better !!

So switch back and forth and just do what's comfortable for yerself. As said before, it depends on the whistle what the exact fingerings are best anyway, so there's nothing for you to look for as far as "oops! geez.. should I have been doing it this way?!?!" Whatever gets you the sound you want, and plays well, works!

Take care,
John

[picardy third]

I use the half hole method about 99.999999% of the time for a C natural. This is mainly because I play a Sindt (which is well know for the need of a half-holed C) and I also tend to like to do things the hard way!
Occassionally, I'll pick up my wife's Burke and use one of the alternate fingerings, but then I get in trouble for tarnishing her brass! (She likes it to shine.)

My advice is: if you are new to music, I think one of the alternate fingerings would be best. The half-holing may be frustrating and sound sick. If you know another instument and have a good ear for good intonation, half holing is a nice option. It is still frustrating at first!

picardy

[Editted to change "wifes" to "wife's". I really can only afford one right now.]

[DaveAuty]

Picardy wrote:

I use the half hole method about 99.999999% of the time for a C natural. This is mainly because I play a Sindt (which is well know for the need of a half-holed C)

I think this is a myth... I hardly ever half hole the Cnat on my Sindt and I never have a tuning problem with oxx ooo. Although I have never used a tuning device to show if it is correct. My thinking is that it's a tin whistle played in a Folk environment, not a concert pitch flute played with the Berlin Philharmonic!
Thats not to say it shouldn't basically be in tune but lets not get carried away with very small variations of tuning.

Dave.

[chas]

On a D Sindt, I found that OXXXXO worked fine, as it does on my G/A Harper combo and the Weltmeister D. A lot of people argue that the forked (OXXXOX) fingering is easier, but I find it cumbersome -- I presume that's a matter of what you grew up with. I also find that, on some whistles with a very sharp two-fingered Cnat, adding the two more fingers still doesn't bring it into tune (Clare specifically).

FYI, on most whistles, you can get a good second-octave Cnat with OXXXXO.

I'm with the other responders, vent or don't vent the second-octave D depending on the phrase. That's true on all the flutes I've played, too.

[susnfx]

http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/

Check out this site for a discussion of Cnat ... and lots of other help with the whistle!

Susan

[Hiro Ringo]

Dave Auty wrote:
>I think this is a myth...


So I think it depends on how many people do believe in the myth. If considerable amount of people once got used to out of tune/in tune situation,it's going to be their standard.And I believe these out of tune/in tune myths are based upon the worship of mathmatics even if people don't know how to handle it.

Even Mary Bergin has to face the worshippers if the most people in ITM world are going to act like the members of the Berlin Philharmonic(not yet though.....). Of course she needs not to mind them when she solos.


BTW,I am still not so sure why most people seem to stick to cross fingering method(although the simple answer is 'because it's easy.'). Because I feel how much fun the half hole method is if I have my favorite intonations in mind(I also use oxxooo if I want good little bit high C natural). This half hole method will try to respond to my every whim.

[burnsbyrne]

I have been wanting to ask this for a while: Is it really possible to half hole Cnat when playing a fast reel, assuming that you are not an extra-terrestrial like Mary Bergin? Is anybody here able to do this?
Mike