OT: Big ant problem.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 4:11 pm

Quote @ markv

There is more at stake then just a hole in the yard. If you ever have a little girl that this happens to and see the look on her face, that may put the lives of a few thousand ants in perspective. A similar incident happened to my daughter when she was three. The pain of the bites was one thing and the look of "Why?" on her face was another but an incident like that has long term effects on how a child views the natural world.

You should be teaching your child respect for the natural world, and teaching her not to sit down on the ants in the first place. Showing her that you're the bigger species so you get to poison the ants to death is shameful, in my humble truthfully honest opinion. We as humans are (or at least should be) above the unnecessary suffering of other animals as much as possible. The ants aren't burning your house down or killing your family, you should just leave them alone. But, I digress.

lollycross · Post by **lollycross** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 4:47 pm

No cranberry,
You can NOT leave ants alone. They do a lot of damage to one's property.
They bite us. They come into our homes and bite us more. They bite
our pets. They raise aphids (like we raise cows) on our trees and then
the tree dies. I am talking about BIG red ones and also black ones.
You kill them like any other harmful bug.
Lolly

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:28 pm

Considering that 99% of the ant colony is composed of mindless slave-workers, I doubt they have much capacity for suffering anyhow.

Well, at least you don't have African driver ants in your backyard, them things will eat anything, including you if you stay still long enough!

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:42 pm

Cranberry wrote:Why does everybody want to KILL the ants?

Is a hole in your yard really worth taking the lives of thousands of ants?

Look back at the first post in the thread and the mention of 'little red ants' chewing on ankles. West Virginia is probably to high and too far north to have fire ants, although they have begun to invade some Northern states such as Illinois. They are more than just a hole in the yard - they are an actual death risk to small animals including pets and can do serious harm to humans, especially kids, the elderly and otherwise infirm adults.

Like I said earlier, I don't sweat the big black ones. Little red ones that bite are a totally different story. You only have two choices once they show up. Either kill them or cede them the yard. That's it.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 6:42 pm

/me weeps

lol

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:14 pm

Cranberry wrote:Quote @ markv
You should be teaching your child respect for the natural world, and teaching her not to sit down on the ants in the first place. Showing her that you're the bigger species so you get to poison the ants to death is shameful, in my humble truthfully honest opinion. We as humans are (or at least should be) above the unnecessary suffering of other animals as much as possible. The ants aren't burning your house down or killing your family, you should just leave them alone. But, I digress.

Have you ever tried to tell a 2-year-old not to do something, nevermind the concept of respect? Ever owned a house infested with carpenter ants and termites and had to face the prospect of a few hundred thousand dollars going down the drain? Ever been cooking supper and had the damn things teeming on your legs, biting you and drawing blood with their rather prodigious mandibles?

I will teach my child respect for the natural world when she's old enough to understand. Respect does not include turning a blind eye to danger though.

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 5:40 am

Thanks everyone for the advice and the singlemindedness to thwart a CranAttack.

I have a great deal of respect for wildlife of all sorts. In fact of all the bugs in the world I find ants and wasps to be the most fascinating. But I do not hesitate to rid my habitat surroundings of them when they may pose a danger. Especially to my 2 year old granddaughter.

We have deer, opossums, racoons, squirrels, skunks, rabbits, and other species wandering our yard frequently. They live in the adjacent woods where I don't disturb them. As long as they are no danger to the people or my abode. etc etc.

As for my offspring, I have never known anyone who has more respect for the animal kingdom. In fact they are such nature lovers they get a little cranberry about it at times. My daughter was making friends with snakes, turtles, salamanders, and even a wild rabbit since she was old enough to walk. It's been a challange. So far no rabies shots necessary.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:19 am

One of the natural enemies of ants is the phorid fly, which decapitates fire ants by laying its eggs inside the ants. As the larva develops, it moves into the ant’s head and causes the head to fall off. So, don't let anyone inside your head...we're all nothing but avuncular ants anyway.

tansy · Post by **tansy** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:28 am

it's all piss and vineger.
i've found if you urinate and pour inexpensive white cider vineger on the ant hills, that they will leave inside of a week. then you don't ruin your garden and ground water with pesticides.
kind of the same strategies some governments have used to get rid of certain undesirables.

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:50 am

tansy wrote:it's all piss and vineger.
i've found if you urinate and pour inexpensive white cider vineger on the ant hills, that they will leave inside of a week. then you don't ruin your garden and ground water with pesticides.
kind of the same strategies some governments have used to get rid of certain undesirables.

That's quite a clever strategy! A friend of mine uses the same thing (well, the urination part anyway -- basically marking his territory) to keep groundhogs away from his garden. However, be sure to do it very late at night, or the neighbors might get a little upset!

Steven

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:53 am

Quote @ geek4music

Thanks everyone for the advice and the singlemindedness to thwart a CranAttack.

Actually, I just don't feel like it at the time being.

edited to make clear what I don't feel like isn't attacking people (I never feel like attacking people) , what I don't feel like is arguing over ants.

dedant · Post by **dedant** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:14 am

Red fire ants are not from the US, having been imported from Brazil between 1933 and 1945. As is the case with most flora and fauna imports, they are a hazard, and naturally no natural predators evolved to limit their growth.

There are many cases (similar to fire ants) where the intentional or non-intentional introduction of non-native species has caused a number of problems for local flora and fauna. For example, there is the case of the mongoose, imported to islands to control rat and snake populations in sugarcane, and known for the extinction of at least 7 amphibian and reptile species in Puerto Rico, and is linked as the proximate or ultimate cause of extinction of 5 vertibrate species in Jamaica. Foxes, cats, rabbits, cattle, sheep and goats, all imported to Australia, have caused the exinction of 18 marsupial species. Another 26 are in very real danger of extinction. The US grey squirrel, imported to Britain, has severely harmed red squirrel populations there. Largemouth bass, introduced to Lake Atitlan has destroyed several wildlife populations, such as crabs, naitive fish, flora such as the reeds that grew in the river, and have forced the extinction of one unique bird species. Kudzu was brought to the US in 1876 from Asia, and has since invaded the southern US, covering more than 7 million acres. I could easily fill several pages with short sentence examples like these.

As mentioned, the imported red fire ant is a naitive of Brazil and poses a threat that native animal and plant populations are not equipped to deal with. The Australian government has declared IFA to be a "key threatening process under the Environmental Protection Biodiversity Conservation Act". California's Department of Food and Agriculture has devoted an entire document and action plan to this dangerous invader. Their mounds can be up to three feet high, causing all sorts of challenges for farmers and farm equipment. Fire ants are known to damage homes, electrical equipment, and the like. IFA (imported fire ants) have caused extensive damage to irrigation projects along the Indian River. They area known problem to nut harvesters, causing not-insignificant damage to harvest yeilds. Ants are reported as swarming and attacking piglets and newborn calves, as well as damaging crops with their mounds and by gnawing their roots. The red fire ant sting can actually kill those with a hypersensitivity to the venom, which can be as common as 1 in 200 people. They have been known to swarm and sting sleeping people and children. The next morning would be a terrible time to find out if your child was one of the .5% of the population likely to go into anaphylactic shock and die after only a few stings.

But, I suppose Cranberry's right. We should just leave 'em alone.

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:35 am

Isn't it time for antstastegood to chip in here?

Free meal, after all...

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 11:01 am

Martin Milner wrote:Isn't it time for antstastegood to chip in here?

Free meal, after all...

In France, some posh Parisian chocolate store sells chocolate coated ants. Sort of M&M's De Luxe.

Now, with fire ants, would it make hot chocolate candies, or dried molle sauce?

Post by **Nanohedron** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 11:11 am

Lorenzo wrote:...we're all nothing but avuncular ants anyway.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry "Uncle!". I'll just throw the nearest objects at you instead.