The search for "the holy whistle grale".

[Narzog]

I know what you mean, Narzog. The thing is... If a Dixon or Killarney or Lír or something else under 100$ feels still bad for me after some months it hurts. If any whistle over 250$ feels like this and the time to return is over it hurts so much more. I don't have much money to spend. So I don't want as many as possible whistles. I don't want to be an expert in this case. I only try to get close to the holy grail for me.

This is fair, I do the same thing. To me its not about if a whistle's actually good or not, its do I like it more. If I don't it gets sold or returned haha. I ended up selling my Goldie last week. I made sure to play it exclusively for like a month to try and adjust to it. But when I went back to playing my others they just felt more natural for me. I don't think I'd ever hit a point of being able to play the Goldie better than my MK, so if someone ever asked me to play I'd always pick up the MK. So at that point no reason to just have $400 sitting on my whistle rack. But this is why I try to always buy used. I may have even made a tiny profit.

[Hauke]

Right.
Good for me and (if I want to play in front of people) I take my Setanta high D, Kelly Busker high C, Killarney Bb or Howard low D.

[pancelticpiper]

Burkes are not known for inconsistency, if anything, quite the opposite.

Any Burke I ever tried...played pretty much like the others.

The likelihood of a very poor one leaving the factory is remote.

Indeed he's an engineer, and precision and theoretical perfection are his goals, which he achieves with amazing consistency.

Unlike most makers who use a few sizes of tubing for all sizes of whistle, so that the bore-to-length ratio varies from size to size, Burke uses dedicated tubing for each size to maintain the ratio he feels is ideal. (Burkes consistently have a wider bore than most whistles of the same size, leading to the characteristics many trad players don't like, and that "classical" musicians do like.)

The wonderful thing about Burkes is every size plays exactly the same, which professional non-trad players love. You can grab any whistle from the roll and know it will be voiced precisely the same as all the others. For years my roll had Burkes in Low D, Low Eb, Low E, mezzo F, mezzo G, mezzo A, high C, and high D and they performed well in hundreds of gigs.

I'm guessing that pushback from people in the trad community about the fat-bore playing characteristics has led to Burke's introduction of so-called "narrow bore" models, which in fact aren't narrow, but similar to the standard traditional bore sizes used by most other makers.

[pancelticpiper]

My issue is that while it doesnt take long to figure out how it plays, it can take time to adjust your playing to how it wants to be played.

Yes that's it in a nutshell.

Right away I know how a whistle plays, how much blowing each note wants, where the octaves break, and so forth. I feel I can get out of a whistle all it's capable of giving in under a minute.

Then there's the style part, which takes me many hours, spread out over weeks and months, and which for me is a subconscious thing, as without thinking about it the way I play shifts to suit what the whistle likes to do. (That stuff is purely in the trad-Irish realm. For studio work a whistle isn't called on for more than playing what's written on the page they hand you.)

[pancelticpiper]

For me and (if I want to play in front of people) I take my Setanta high D, Kelly Busker high C, Killarney Bb or Howard low D.

For me, if a high D whistle is called for I play my c1980 MK1 Feadog. No other high D I've ever tried, including whistles of wood and silver and costing a thousand dollars, has been its equal.

My earlier Killarney is very, very close but lacks a bit of the patina or colour in the tone that the Feadog has. (A later Killarney I bought has a rougher tone than the earlier one.)

If a high C is called for I play my c1980 Generation which I feel is the finest whistle I've ever played, period.

If it's Bb I play my c1980 Generation which I've heavily modified by chopping the head and gluing it back together. That, and a Jerry Freeman Generation Bb, are the two best Bb's I've owned.

For Low C, Low D, and mezzo F I play Colin Goldie whistles.

[Hauke]

For me and (if I want to play in front of people) I take my Setanta high D, Kelly Busker high C, Killarney Bb or Howard low D.

For me, if a high D whistle is called for I play my c1980 MK1 Feadog. No other high D I've ever tried, including whistles of wood and silver and costing a thousand dollars, has been its equal.

My earlier Killarney is very, very close but lacks a bit of the patina or colour in the tone that the Feadog has. (A later Killarney I bought has a rougher tone than the earlier one.)

If a high C is called for I play my c1980 Generation which I feel is the finest whistle I've ever played, period.

If it's Bb I play my c1980 Generation which I've heavily modified by chopping the head and gluing it back together. That, and a Jerry Freeman Generation Bb, are the two best Bb's I've owned.

For Low C, Low D, and mezzo F I play Colin Goldie whistles.

Sounds really good. I still dream of a goldie, maybe some day Im going to get one. But it would take some time. I just bought a good mandolin and a fine violin in the last two years. So money (especially with 3 kids) doesn't fall down from the sky.

[Narzog]

Sounds really good. I still dream of a goldie, maybe some day Im going to get one. But it would take some time. I just bought a good mandolin and a fine violin in the last two years. So money (especially with 3 kids) doesn't fall down from the sky.

You need to constantly check for sale boards like here and the irish flute/whistle one on facebook. They come up here and there. If you see one for an ok deal and buy it right away, you can sell it off for no loss if you dont like it. Might be a long wait, I only see one every couple months haha.

[Hauke]

Thanks so much, Narzog.

[pancelticpiper]

You need to constantly check for sale boards like here and the Irish flute/whistle one on Facebook. They come up here and there. If you see one for an ok deal and buy it right away, you can sell it off for no loss if you don't like it. Might be a long wait, I only see one every couple months haha.

My Goldie Low C and Low D were bought used, while my F was bought directly from Colin.

Buying used has the advantage Narzog mentions, being able to in effect rent instruments for free for as long as you wish, plus the fact that you can get instruments in your hands right away. This is a huge advantage for makers with a wait list.

I've never been able to get a used whistle from a Facebook group because they sell instantly. I would have to stay on that page constantly to have any chance of getting anything.

I've been on the other side! When I put up several things on a FB group my inbox was immediately flooded with people wanting everything. That's when you realise you priced things too low, something that an Ebay auction prevents. (I've had things on Ebay sell for ten times what I had priced them at.)

[Hauke]

Right.
Good for me and (if I want to play in front of people) I take my Setanta high D, Kelly Busker high C, Killarney Bb or Howard low D.

Edit for the Kelly: Wonderful tone in the low octave. Comin to g, a and b it's like a screamin old hen. So sad about it. But for 130 $ not worth the price.

[pancelticpiper]

Wonderful tone in the low octave. Comin to g, a and b it's like a screamin old hen.

In comparing a large number of Low D whistles the thing that jumped out was how makers try to balance having Low E not be feeble and High B not be harsh.

On Low D whistles Low E is generally the weakest note, not surprising because it's usually the hole furthest from its acoustically correct position, which in turn makes it usually the smallest hole.

Why High B should be harsher, more incalcitrant, more finicky than any other 2nd octave note is, I suppose, simply because it's closer to the mouthpiece. (The same thing happens with clarinets' "throat tones'.)

Anyhow just comparing Low E to High B quickly tells you most of what you need to know about the voicing and balance between the octaves on a Low D.

[Hauke]

Wonderful tone in the low octave. Comin to g, a and b it's like a screamin old hen.

In comparing a large number of Low D whistles the thing that jumped out was how makers try to balance having Low E not be feeble and High B not be harsh.

On Low D whistles Low E is generally the weakest note, not surprising because it's usually the hole furthest from its acoustically correct position, which in turn makes it usually the smallest hole.

Why High B should be harsher, more incalcitrant, more finicky than any other 2nd octave note is, I suppose, simply because it's closer to the mouthpiece. (The same thing happens with clarinets' "throat tones'.)

Anyhow just comparing Low E to High B quickly tells you most of what you need to know about the voicing and balance between the octaves on a Low D.

It wasn't g, a and b, of course, it's a C whistle. It's f, g and a.
I also had a Setanta high C. The air balance was very good, so it seems possible to find a good way of construction. But I understand the problem.

[TheSinger]

hello again!
I have just ordered and received another low D from Colin Goldie. The other one I have from him is a medium hard blowing, 0.85 mm. This one is 0.95 mm, and it’s much more to my liking. obviously, I would need to spend some more time with it to really get to know it, but I think I like the soft blowing instruments better than the hard blowing ones. I really like to push when I play a whistle, but I do prefer the sound of a soft, blowing one, with less of the “forced” sound. just thought I would share this in this thread