How do you ornament a C natural? C sharp?

HDSarah · Post by **HDSarah** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:43 pm

Ok, beginner question time. I'm sure this must have been asked before but I must be searching for the wrong words. A link to a previous discussion would be appreciated if anyone knows of one.

How do you ornament a C natural note? (I play it cross-fingered, OXX OOO)
How do you ornament a C sharp? (OOO OOO) So far all I've done is a tap or two quick taps in succession.

I have two different tunes (both jigs, by the way), one with the C natural and one with the C sharp, that seem to want something there but I'm not sure what to do with those notes.

Thanks,
Sarah

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:05 pm

Hmmm, for the C#, I personally have no clue beside the tap. But for the CNat, what I sometimes do is a "cran hybrid" on the three holes below, which gives a high D cran. It can't be a real cran as you still have to hear the CNat as the main note. I think the effect is neat if not overused. Anyway, if you want an example just e-mail me or private msg me.

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:17 pm

Using ooo xxx for C#, you can mimic a cut by tapping with L2 and L3 simultaneously. Use L1 for a tap.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:19 pm

I don't ornamment c-nats or c-sharps if you mean by that anything more than a cut. Most whistlers I've heard don't ornament these notes. If you are playing nice and steady, a long un-ornamented note should be nice. You can also take a breath there, for instance by going czc instead of c3 (z is a pause). That's what Larry Nugent does on "Fahy's Jig" (track 1 on the Windy Gap CD).

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:29 pm

C nat roll
WHOOPS! READ THESE SIDEWAYS, NOT LONGWAYS

OXXOXX (Cnat)
OXXXXX (Dnat)
OXXOXX
XXXOXX
OXXOXX

Only works fast and is sorta weak but you can work it up (with tongue).

C# ROLL
OOOXXX
OXXXXX
OOOXXX
XOOXXX
OOOXXX

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:56 pm

I have several whistles (noteably my Hoover Whitecap, my Generations, and my older Feadog) for which the best fingering for C nat. is OXX XOX, and for those, slapping down R2 to play D or switching to XOO OOO to play B is fairly simple, and I have no problems playing cuts, taps or turns (you might see if you can use this fingering on any of your whistles...not all of them work with it). My other whistles prefer either OXX OOO or OXX XOO, and those I don't ornament the C nat much.

'Bout the only ornament I regularly do on a C# is a slide.

Redwolf

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:28 pm

Deirdre Havlin ornaments Cnats beautifully in King George IV (on Deanta's "Ready for the storm" as well as the Wooden Flute Obsession CD). I have no idea how she does it. Anyone have a clue?

I'm working on the Cnat roll using a vented high-D for the cut and a G for the tap. It's not easy, but then I still haven't made much headway in A or B rolls.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:31 pm

I use this sequence to roll on c-natural:

o x x | o o o

o x x | x x x (cut)

o x x | o o o

x x x | o o o (tap)

o x x | o o o

You can hear this in this comparison recording of the Clarke whistle family:

http://www.flutesite.com/samples/5clarke.mp3

These are the whistles, in order: Clarke original unpainted, Clarke original black paint, Clarke Sweetone unpainted; Clarke Meg silver paint; Feadog D.

--James

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:34 pm

chas wrote:Deirdre Havlin ornaments Cnats beautifully in King George IV (on Deanta's "Ready for the storm" as well as the Wooden Flute Obsession CD). I have no idea how she does it. Anyone have a clue?

I'm working on the Cnat roll using a vented high-D for the cut and a G for the tap. It's not easy, but then I still haven't made much headway in A or B rolls.

Chas, I'm sorry--I didn't see your post before I posted.

The roll you describe is exactly how I roll a C-natural.

Keep workin' on those rolls--they'll sneak up on you and you'll be doing them well before you realize it!

Best wishes,

--James

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:47 am

peeplj wrote:
Chas, I'm sorry--I didn't see your post before I posted.

The roll you describe is exactly how I roll a C-natural.

Keep workin' on those rolls--they'll sneak up on you and you'll be doing them well before you realize it!

It's nice to know that someone else does it this way and that it's actually doable! Very nice clip, too.

Arto_Vallivirta · Post by **Arto_Vallivirta** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:28 am

Tongued triplets.

/Arto

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:52 am

For C-sharp, I have been working on a kind of cran:

o o o | o o o

x x o | o o o (tap)

o o o | o o o

x o o | o o o (tap)

o o o | o o o

I don't have a suitable recording of this technique yet; this is still a work in progress, but I see no reason why with practice it can't be made to work.

--James

BrassBlower · Post by **BrassBlower** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:44 am

peeplj wrote:For C-sharp, I have been working on a kind of cran:

o o o | o o o

x x o | o o o (tap)

o o o | o o o

x o o | o o o (tap)

o o o | o o o

I don't have a suitable recording of this technique yet; this is still a work in progress, but I see no reason why with practice it can't be made to work.

--James

It seems to follow, then, that you could also cran a vented high D by cutting with R2 for a Cnat, then cutting with L2 (or L2 and L3) for a C#, or vice versa. I know that repeatedly cutting with L2 yields a nice trill.

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 10:50 am

Mick O'Brien does a perfect roll based on 0XX 000 fingering, but then he's Mick O'Brien. I think that what he plays is more or less
0XX 0X0 -
0XX XX0 -
XXX 0X0

You can also do the piper's choke-the-chicken Cnat by very gradually but simultaneously uncovering the G and C holes so that you slide up to the note, then play a vibrato with the G finger. Much easier, and gives a wild or "lonesome" tone.

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:13 am

Hmmm okay, I'll probably sound negative, but... I don't really "agree" with the

OXXOOO
OXXXXX
OXXOOO
XXXOOO
OXXOOO

To my ears, the roll doesnt come out as neat as a normal roll. I used to practice that roll a lot because it was cool, but at the end I dropped it. The problem also shows up on louder whistles which require more air from CNat to high D.

Does anyone have a sample of a professionnal recording that has some of these ornamentations?