Need for Speed!

srfmowman · Post by **srfmowman** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:53 pm

Thanks everyone. That gives me another aspect to work on in my practice. I try to get 1.5 hours a day of practice. The NPU video has been a great asset. I would recommend it to anyone starting out. I hope those two in the video are not that somber in real life. I can't stop smiling from the time I put my set together till long after I put it away.

Thanks again
John

lemonsquash · Post by **lemonsquash** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:14 pm

This thread is yet another sterling example of miscommunication on this forum that functioned to offend and alienate another serious musician for no particular reason--other than that he stated a preference that flies in the face of the "cool" piping in-crowd. Those who berated Orbis for complaining about getting what he asked for need some logotherapy. He asked for tune recommendations, and did get a few. Otherwise, he got unsolicited speculations regarding the depth of his musicality, his priorities and their proper order, and even a bit of straight-no-chaser vicious sarcasm. I happen to agree that focusing on speed to the exclusion of other factors determining quality in music is a mistake, but that doesn't matter. Some commendable remarks were made by well-established members of the C&F clique, but overall the clique fulfilled its usual function and turned another piper away from a potentially very helpful source of information.

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:50 am

Lemonsquash How do we know Orbis has given up the forum?For all we know he may well be quite happy with the responses and is getting on with his own thing or he may not be happy with the responses and still getting on with his own thing.!!!
Most of the replies have been aimed at a "newcomer"which has nothing to do with musical ability but is stated as well established views on pipering over generations and is after all there for a reason.If anyone offended it was probably accidental... :roll:
Liam

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:42 am

so.., someone comes in here asking about speed, telling everyone he plays fo a whole year now..
People try to warn about the caveats of speed when you start out and then suddenly he plays for 18 years and is a very good musician indeed..

SHOULD WE HAVE SMELLED THAT OR SOMETHING???????

Now the pople that tried to help are the bad guys?
I don't think so....

BTW.., whisky, whiskey!!??
Oh, my goodness! What in the world? happened to yohoho and a bottle of rum???

stew · Post by **stew** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:13 am

I'm sure Orbis has had plenty of critism before starting up them G.H.P's
he' been playing for 18 years must have been young when he started
did'nt some one say that he was in his early twenties I've heard pipers playing pretty nifty on the Highland pipes I can tell ya".

Orbis we a wait your company again
Let's get back to piping.

Nothing Wrong with a Rum "n" Coke me Hearty's.

Put me on my back many a night

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:38 am

Uilliam wrote: Most of the replies have been aimed at a "newcomer"which has nothing to do with musical ability but is stated as well established views on pipering over generations and is after all there for a reason.If anyone offended it was probably accidental... :roll:
Liam

What about the vast number of players who just get on with what they do, not caring about rules and regulations laid down by whomever (this is "thinking for yourself"), or voicing their opinions. There are many silent voices to the one audible one, so I reckon the part of the reason it is there is because some people like to press there ideals more than others . I, for one, would hate to have my opinions used as a hard and fast "view" in times to come.

As far as offence, yes, I reckon it's accidental. Offence seems to be taken too easily. Gee, you'll get a worse time from non-pipers for sure................

Alan

Scott McCallister · Post by **Scott McCallister** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:24 pm

lemonsquash wrote: overall the clique fulfilled its usual function and turned another piper away from a potentially very helpful source of information.

hmmm... I'm sure there's an oxymoron for this...

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:52 pm

Alan dear pal,I well remember your classes in London and I am mindful of the classes at Willie Clancy Week...never was there any mention of hard and fast rules but!!!!there was certainly parameters or guidlines if you like,within which to learn the basics.Having done that you were free to do whatever you liked as many of the great players today have and are doing.You would demonstrate one style,influenced by Paddy K if I remember whilst Robbie H would demonstrate another.Nobody was right and nobody was wrong just different.but..this did not happen overnight did it..students had to be gently coaxed along until they got it sound.I never mentioned rules or regulations,I don't think anyone did..but lets face it ye can't play a cran for example until ye learn it one note at a time then speed it up when you are better.not a rule/ regulation but guidance and it is not trying to foist opinions on anyone..
We each of us learnt from others and no doubt others will learn from us..
If everyone stayed silent on this forum it would be pretty boring wouldn't it!
Anyways I am definately gonna force a guiness down yer throat when I see you at Grantown and I'm gonna press that ideal on ye wether ye like it or not!!!
Slan go foill

Liam

lemonsquash · Post by **lemonsquash** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:24 pm

Uilliam, I think Orbis made it fairly clear that he wasn't happy with the responses he got and the fact that he has not rejoined the dialogue despite several entreaties expressing concern for his feelings suggests to me that he is no longer involved. I hope you're right that he hasn't given up completely on the forum.
Rick, your own initial post was fairly mildly worded and I believe you meant well--but if you can seriously tell me that you think the post from Mypipes was an attempt to help anyone.......then we're using different languages. There isn't any need to get defensive about what you couldn't magically divine about Orbis' musical background. I think he was justified in being a little miffed that, although he didn't volunteer information to the contrary, the general assumption seemed to be that he was a rookie who needed to be shepherded out of his erroneous ways rather than a peer whose request should be responded to on the terms stated in his post.
I suggest that it is well to remember that Liam O'Flynn (and, indeed, all of the members of Planxty) encountered a great deal of adversity from the self-appointed guardians of the Irish Traditional Music Aesthetic for doing things that differed what had been done previously or what was common at the time. They found support in no less a member of the trad royalty than Seamus Ennis. As I said, I agree that using speed as a yardstick of musical quality is wrong. I only intended, in my post, to caution against being so sure that we all know the right way to play music and someone else, whose playing we have presumably never heard, does not.

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:15 pm

Liam,

Point taken, and agreed with.
Cheers, I'll be able to explain myself better in person!!

Alan

orbis · Post by **orbis** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:07 pm

Hello again all. It would seem that I've unintentionally caused somewhat of a commotion. I would like to thank everyone who made actual tune recommendations (as per my original request), and also those who have been understanding/supportive of me. Admittedly I've learned to take ridicule from people I don't know; now I just hand it right back to them (come on, I've been proudly wearing a kilt since I was 7, what do you expect?).
What I initially requested was some tune recommendations, and aside from the obvious exceptions, what I got was a bunch of people who seem a little too excited with the prospect that there might be diapers to change; I'm no greenhorn to piping. Suggestions, I'll accept, but I don't need anyone telling me what I am, and am not allowed to do. One of the reasons that uilleann piping appealed to me in the first place, was that its practitioners seemed more open to musical interpretation. Uilleann pipers seem to play to have a good time and to just enjoy jamming out, whereas many highland pipers (no offense meant toward anyone!) often seem preoccupied with being regimented. Anyone who's played g.h.b. knows what I'm talking about. I love music for the sake of music, and really got tired of dealing with pipemajors who seem like they've got a drone stuck up their @#$..... Ordering people around like they're some sort of demigod.
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The thing that most bothered me was that people made all these assumptions about what I am surely incapable of. I think it would have been snotty of me to list my musical accomplishments with my post don't you? (As if to say, I have a question, oh and by the way, everyone look at me, look what I've done.) But seeing as some critics still seem to be commenting about my inexperience, to you I say: I in fact play several instruments. Music has always come naturally to me as have perfect pitch. I have studied both Indian-Classical and Middle-Eastern percussion, and play several other instruments which I don't feel it is necessary to mention. I have recorded with several well known groups and I'm presently working on a record deal with Time Warner. What have you doing with your music lately? (please disregard the above statement if you did not previously talk to me in a belittling way)..
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As some people mentioned, my original question, said nothing about playing tunes TOO fast...... For those who don't want to bother reading my post all the way through, what I said was that I am learning a tune "lovers of light", and wanted to know if there were any tunes out there that were faster (assuming that not everybody has heard this tune I simply asked that people tell me the fastest tune they've heard played). I figured that if I can get my hands up to that speed, then I would never have to worry about making my fingers move any faster. And if I could get that out of the way, it would be one less thing that I would have to worry about. Then I began to think, what if there are tunes out there that are faster? Then if ever I encountered one, it would be an obstacle that I could possibly have avoided (figured who better to ask than a bunch of pipers).
Let's face it, obviously, it's a lot more difficult to be able to play fast (that's why when people first pick up an instrument, they're told to play it slowly), and that would apply to both playing a tune that is fast, or for example being quick enough to be able to accurately execute a difficult set of grace notes in a tune.

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:21 am

orbis wrote: What have you doing with your music lately? (please disregard the above statement if you did not previously talk to me in a belittling way)..
=================================
.

Orbis I knew ye hadn't gone into the ether, as presumably ye put me in the above category let me say that nothing I said was meant to belittle you and if it did then I am sorry.
Slan Go Foill
Uilliam (All Britain Champion Senior Uilleann Pipes and
Uilleann Pipes Slow Airs.
Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann)

Idwood · Post by **Idwood** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:38 am

Dear fellow pipers,

I think, Orbis has risen an important point: Speed is not necessarily a bad thing for a tune. Suggestions of how many bpm should a reel be played at, for example, is only of little help, as long as you do not know about the internal structure of the tune. For example, those of you who play piano will definitely know Beethoven's Sonate Pathetique. After the dramatic and very slow intro, there follows a wild melody which uses lots if not all of your manual capabilities. When you start to play the sonata, most non-pros will play it at a speed of approx. 10 percent of what Beethoven had in mind, and you ask yourself: why the hell did he want me to play it at that idiotic speed? After a while, you get faster, and then, after quite some hard time of exercising, you reach the point where you recognize that there is a deeper melody line lying below the wild race you are perfoming. I think the same is true with jigs and reels. You need to find the inner structure, and it was in this sense that I understood Orbis' search for a faster tune - from musical, not from technical reasons. And I hope that Orbis will let us know when he finds a tune which deserves high speed in this sense.

Best regards!

P.S.: There are a lot of tunes which can be spoilt by playing them too fast, from the same reasons mentioned above. Examples can be found at least once on nearly every uilleann pipe CD on the market.

Paul Reid · Post by **Paul Reid** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 9:29 am

I'm not an expert on tunes, although I was just sitting here listening to a Martin Nolan CD "Bright Silver Dark Wood" and track 12 is blistering fast. It's called Quebec Reel/Colonel Rodney, also in my cd player is a Paddy Keenan CD "Na Keen Affair and track 12 (is it always track 12?) Is a set of Reels Called Bonnie Kate/Rakish Paddy/Ivy Leaf.

If ya can manage that then you deserve even more than a record contract! Cheers to you Orbis and carry on with the good stuff! GO FOR IT!!

elbogo · Post by **elbogo** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:51 am

Well, for me (or any beginner for that matter) most jigs and reels sound fast. Don't know if I'll ever git my fingers to play that fast!! It also seems to me that one could play almost any tune fast, or faster than usual. Take Madam Bonaparte, which seems like a fast tune, especially when hearing Brendan Rings version of it. Played really fast! Doesn't seem to me that anyone can play that fast! Also, Keven Rowsome on the Rowsome Tradition CD there is The Dublin Lasses, which seems quite fast.

I don't know really if these are fast tunes, or just played fast(?), but both of these pipers make it seem easy(?).

When one takes into consideration all the ornamentation, if implemented... all the grace notes, the triplets, crans and whatnot, getting them in properly (besides the basic tune)... well, this can be very fast playing when taken all together. So it seems to me.

Chiff and Fipple Forums

Need for Speed!

hi

Re: hi