The most repeated question on the Chiff and Fipple

[sbfluter]

I've always assumed my two cheap whistles are horribly out of tune because they are terrible when I try to play with other people. But I blew them into my violin tuner and they're actually not that far off. So what is the deal with that?

[tstermitz]

@Diane. First, are you good in the high register? Whistle volume increases in the high notes so that is where problems show up. Tuning to A440 isn't as useful as tuning to A880.

Secondly, if you watch the tuner while playing, there is a tendency to adjust or correct your notes. The RTTA tuner app for your iPhone let's you just play a song independently, and then it shows your intonation for all the notes.

[pancelticpiper]

I've always assumed my two cheap whistles are horribly out of tune because they are terrible when I try to play with other people. But I blew them into my violin tuner and they're actually not that far off. So what is the deal with that?

Hmmm... the possibilities that come to mind are

1) "not that far off" is far enough off to sound bad with other people. The needle should really point straight up for every note.

2) You're blowing differently when you play with other people than when you play for the tuner.

3) The tuner is not set to the same pitch as the other people you play with. BTW I don't know what a "violin tuner" is. Does it only read GDAE? That would be a problem, perhaps. I would get an ordinary chromatic tuner instead.

4) The other people you're playing with are out of tune. I've seen sessions all tune to an accordion or uilleann pipe that's a quartertone off.

[Mr.Gumby]

The needle should really point straight up for every note.

It's not the first time you have advocated the 'straight up reading' Richard but it's really pretty much dependent on context.

Not all situations are, thankfully, rigidly equal tempered. In a setting where pipes, fiddle, flute and whistle are playing together I would suggest they are never so. When there are concertinas involved tuned to a meantone temperament your equal tempered whiistle will also stand out like a sore thumb.

[pancelticpiper]

Yes as I've said "playing in tune" is situational.

"Needle straight up" will make you right in tune with guitars, mandolins, bouzoukis, keyboards, and many/most accordions.

Many whistleplayers are in that sort of situation, being the only woodwind in their group.

Even if there are flutes, many of those are tuned ET too.

If one wants to play in Just Intonation, as far as the uilleann pipes and many Irish flutes go, you're really only talking having F#'s that are a few cents low. One piece of tape will convert your ET whistle to a JI whistle in seconds. Or if the pipes or flute have a lower B too (many do not) then it's two pieces of tape.

People make a bigger deal out of the JI/ET thing than the reality is. My uilleann chanter is precisely in tune to ET. I've used it on hundreds of studio gigs, the needle points straight up on every note.

Yet, I can turn on the drones when playing solo and everything is in tune with the drones, including the F#'s. How can this be? It's a matter of slight adjustments in blowing, that's all.

So, "needle straight up" is the place to start, though C/C# is a special case, and you might want the F#'s a hair low.

[Mr.Gumby]

you're really only talking having F#'s that are a few cents low

And the Bs, 14-ish cents both, the c nat appropriately flat in context. A very noticeable difference and appreciably sweeter when playing with good fiddleplayers.

[sbfluter]

Violin tuner. Clamps to the violin. Reads any note at all.

The notes aren't all perfect but they're not nearly as off as I thought they would be. I can't see how they could ever be perfect since as I blow into the whistle the pitch shifts a bit. I can't get the tuner to read the lower notes at all, so this is only for the upper register.

[pancelticpiper]

you're really only talking having F#'s that are a few cents low

And the Bs, 14-ish cents both, the c nat appropriately flat in context. A very noticeable difference and appreciably sweeter when playing with good fiddleplayers.

Yep, F# and B I can do in a couple seconds with two pieces of tape. No worries. Though in 35+ years of playing this music with others I've not had to do that, my B being at pitch and blending fine with everybody. I've played hundreds of Irish flutes by a large variety of makers past and present over the years and B is nearly always at it's ET place. Probably because B should be -16 in JI for D Major, -14 for G Major, needle straight up for B minor, and +4 for A (Major/minor/Mixolydian). That's why ET was invented in the first place.

Thing is, you can hear fiddlers and pipers and fluters playing all the time with ET fretted instruments and keyboard instruments and it's all good. Seemingly people are making fine adjustments guided by the ears, probably without thinking about it.

When the JI thing really matters is when you have a single pure chanter heard over the drones. Then having F# too sharp really jumps out, and all the other notes too of course. Yet, you can hear pipers play along with ET instruments and somehow it all works.

[Chifmunk]

[THREAD REVIVAL - MOD]

My 'other, to specify' that should be on the voting list is the Freeman Blackbird. As a beginner, i can say I'm really enjoying mine. I now have the set of three (C, D, Eb) and they are such a pleasure to play and learn on... makes me look forward to practice time.

[Spielorjh]

As another beginner who's played a few whistles now, I keep coming back to the TJ Potter D I got on a member's recommendation and haven't found anything (affordable) as good.

[dubrosa22]

'Does anyone have an Olwell flute to sell?'

[Chifmunk]

The first post of this thread indicates that the most repeated question on the Chiff and Fipple is: "Can you recommend a good beginner whistle?"....
Then there follows a POLL listing a limited choice from a bunch of whistles, by brand and type.

But what's the initial assumption/criteria?- that a beginner whistle should be inexpensive? (and what is considered 'inexpensive'?) Or should be sturdy/easy to care for? Easy to play? Adaptable for the most playing situations? Readily available and no waiting list? Have great intonation? Be not too low/long a stretch for beginner fingering? (and why on earth would a low D whistle be included in the poll choices? lol)

The poll results don't seem to be rated only by a whistle's cost.
So my question would be not so much voting for various whistles that people like, but... what are the most important requirements that would make something a 'good beginner whistle' ?