"The (BIG) one which got away"!

[jemtheflute]

"The (BIG) one which got away"! (Dammit!)

Italian Job. Sold today at an auction in Shrewsbury (not far away from me!) for just over £1k (including premiums). (Hall's auction listing)
I was surprised there was that much interest/value placed on it - I was after it but it went above my limit. I was really quite surprised it went above £300 - there's usually little interest in this kind of Italian flute. I bid up to £700 (excl premiums), but there were at least 2 other bidders on it. Hammer price was £850. Mind you, the previous lot, a nice looking Wallis 8-key also pulled a rather higher price than I expected.



It is an extended "Ziegler System" as the Italians liked to call these, with a foot to low A. Nominally a "15 key" instrument, it has 13 actual keys, two with duplicate touches, to whit (from the top): high E trill, long C, Bb (2 touches, L thumb & R1), G# x2 (L4/L thumb), F x2 (usual short & long), Eb (2 touches, R4 & L thumb), C#, C, B, Bb, A. Get that L thumb linkage for the duplicate Eb touch! It looks to me as though the low A touch is for R4, above the normal C# and C touches, while the B and Bb touches must be for L4 alongside the normal long F.

Barlassina's activity dates are 1891-post 1940 according to the New Langwill Index. You can read about the heritage/historical context of this kind of flute here

Nice looking Viennese style "TV screen" embouchure.

[dunnp]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252545712774

It's back.

[jemtheflute]

Aha. I rather wondered if it would turn out to be one of those pillocky London dealers (assuming they're not multiple IDs for the same person). Usual MO - c100% mark up over what they paid at auction, no added value/work done.

At least now we get to see some decent pictures.

[Uni Flute]

I agree Jem, I reckon you're onto something with the multiple identity dealer on ebay UK. I have been watching this buyer mopping up at UK Auction houses for the past three years, often making regular appearances at Gardiner Houlgate. In some instances, I have seen the prices quadruple between auction house and ebay, and as you quite rightly point out, without any restoration and always "sold as seen." I know of six ebay accounts based in London dealing mainly in woodwind, usually flutes and saxophones, all with the same listing format. On some occasions, I have seen the same instruments rotate from one account to another. One interesting example was a "Monzino" flute picked up at Bromton's auction house for £780 before costs to be relisted and sold on ebay at £1585 as a "Monzani" flute. It seems to be very different from other Monzani flutes I have seen. See the auction link and ebay link below;

https://www.bromptons.co/auction/27th-j ... -1812.html

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Collectible-E ... 7675.l2557

In this case, the asking price for the Italian flute has only more than doubled.

[jemtheflute]

Uni Flute, you've been watching him/them more carefully than I have (bothered to), then. The only heartening thing about the whole affair is that mostly the flutes don't sell at the ridiculously inflated initial eBay prices and he slowly, slowly brings them down, but never quite as far as the often excessive (or at least top of market) prices he paid for them. How on earth that works as a business model.......?

[paddler]

I've been watching this situation too. I have noticed a steady accumulation of nice flutes listed on eBay under the same 2 or 3 dealers, all listed for way above market value, and of course with a corresponding lack of sales. I have wondered whether the business model they have in mind is to try to snap up virtually all of the available antiques until they have a monopoly and can then dictate the price. To be successful, this strategy would require antique flutes to be much rarer than they actually are. Alternatively, maybe they just want to create the impression that these high prices are normal, and thereby lure unsuspecting buyers in. Either way, it doesn't seem to be working because they haven''t sold much if anything that I have noticed. I'm just wondering how deep their pockets are and how long before they have to drop the prices substantially.

[gorjuswrex]

Seems to have sold on ebay for £2150. Some mark up if correct.

[jemtheflute]

Resisted, knocked down a little.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252588167989

[paddler]

I just noticed that the other interesting flute that was sold at the same auction as "the big one" also just came up on eBay here. It is a J. Wallis flute with distinctive engraved bands.

The same pattern of behavior is exhibited here: relisting on eBay shortly after the auction for a significantly bumped up price with no value added (that I can see). But this time the eBay seller is keysinstru rather than boon_stre. I have wondered if these eBay sellers are actually the same person. Both joined eBay at approximately the same time and have significant overlap in their list of buyers. I guess it could just be coincidence. I have just noticed because they have a lot of nice flutes up for sale between the two of them.

[jemtheflute]

I'm fairly sure they're the same person, and I think there's a third eBay user name which may be another incarnation - forget what it is off-hand.

Re: the speculations about their business model, if it's some sort of attempt on a monopoly, they must have huge financial reserves or infinite credit for such massive gambling. It's a very weird idea if that is what's going on (which I doubt). Mind you, they wouldn't need a huge sales success rate at even their discounted prices to go a fair way towards a viable margin, I suppose.

[Uni Flute]

I'm fairly sure they're the same person, and I think there's a third eBay user name which may be another incarnation - forget what it is off-hand.

I have noticed six accounts which bear incredible similarities in photography and written description all based in London, including the two mentioned by paddler. In the past, some instruments have rotated between three accounts for definite. More recently, these accounts have been streamlined,with each account appearing to specialise in specific woodwind instruments. Previously, they all sold a variety of woodwind and brass instruments. The other names to keep an eye out for are; businboon, sentimood, exotuk4, and floatingmountain.

Depressing isn't it

[jemtheflute]

Aye, those are they. Only one of those isn't familiar to me.

[accordionstu]

Sentimood is the one I often see selling at an inflated price, but Im not buying at the moment so I cant be tempted.