Ethnicwinds whistles and Nick Metcalf

[Tor]

How did you pay? By credit card? As a general possibility, if the other party is incommunicado you can always go via the cc company. I have done that a couple of times when I've received a bill charging for goods not ordered or received. CC companies work fast in my experience.
And if you paid with paypal then there's the normal paypal dispute mechanism.
If you paid any other way than with credit card or similar (i.e. some method which can handle disputes) then you could be in trouble. Not recommended.

[ytliek]

I would ask for a refund. And keep asking.

[Tater]

Thank you all for your sage and sound advice.

I am sorry for ranting but I am very frustrated.

[Mr.Gumby]

I am very frustrated.

And that is understandable but going off on the internet is not going to create much goodwill with someone you're trying to get something, either an instrument or a refund, from. At this stage you don't want to do anything counter-productive.

[Mikethebook]

Just for your information, I saw this posted on Facebook by Nick:

As many of you know I have had a very hard time catching up on all my old orders. Because I got so far behind and still have about 80 outstanding orders I have decided to change how I make the instruments. I have begun working in a machine shop and now I am able to use a milling machine and a very very expensive c&c machine. This will allow me to make very precisely machined whistles with differences of less than 1,000th of an inch between whistles. I have made the first prototype that has nothing pretty done to it, it's mainly to make measurements for the c&c machine. The final product will be much more attractive. The tuning will be 100% perfectly accurate, and the whistle will be virtually indestructible. I am coating the inside of the windway with Teflon to prevent moisture buildup. Once we get it set up, I will be able to produce many more whistles per day. My cost will be substantially higher per whistle, but hopefully the time factor will make the price manageable. I have been working with a mechanical engineer who is helping me with the design, and I'm pretty excited as I believe this will end up being the whistle model that other whistles are measured against. For those of you who have outstanding orders, I will most likely be trying to see if you will accept the new model in place of what you ordered. The first batch will be low Ds, so if that's what you are waiting for, that's what will be ready first. I anticipate having all keys available but not sure how fast anything will be ready. Thank you all for your patience, and I will try and make you the best instrument I can.

[Peter Duggan]

Just for your information, I saw this posted on Facebook by Nick:

*cough*

viewtopic.php?p=1172956#p1172956

[Mikethebook]

Sorry for the duplication!!

[bigsciota]

Just as an aside, Teflon is completely safe and non-toxic at room temperature (and even above it). According to the American Cancer Society, PTFE (Teflon) "is not suspected of causing cancer."

What can sometimes be a problem is when Teflon is heated to high temperatures (>400ºF), which can happen when a dry teflon pan is left on a stove. The teflon starts to degrade at those temperatures, and can cause flu-like symptoms in humans if the fumes from the burning teflon are inhaled. For reference, most cooking in pots and pans on a stove is between 2-300ºF.

[nickthepiedpiper]

Well, I know I'm not the most popular guy these days in the whistle world. Let me be up front and say that I have made a lot of mistakes with customers, especially with regards to how long it will be before I finish their orders. I'm really bad at estimating that amount of time. And, as pointed out above I get about 40 emails about whistles a day. I try and go through them and respond at least once a week if I can. When I have customers who try to "shame" me into getting their orders it doesn't really make me feel like trying so hard. For the first 7 years of whistle making I had order buttons on my web page and I had no control over how many orders came in. For the most part I was able to keep up and keep all orders under 2 months. Then my instruments started getting very popular and I struggled to keep up. Right at the peak of orders (I was getting about 7 a day) my house burned, and I lost everything. Being that it was a traumatic experience, I spent the next 3 months trying to put my life back together, and I didn't spend much time making whistles. When I got an new workshop set up I was so far behind that I took the order buttons down. I have since refunded about 75% of those orders. Since the fire I have had to move unexpectedly twice, and I have also suffered from some serious medical conditions and depression which have not helped me with catching up. Since I have not been able to take new orders, I haven't had much of an income. I had a friend try to "help" by giving me a business, which ended up being a black hole of time. I sold the business and was planning on going back to full time whistle making living off of the money from the sale for a couple of months while I caught up on all my orders. When the OP emailed me asking if he could order I was just finishing up a few batches of orders and planned on having 3 more months to just catch up and I thought I could fit his order in with some batches that I already started. Sadly the guy I sold the business to has decided not to pay me anything or communicate in any way, so I have been forced to take a new job in order to feed my family. So I work 8 hours a day, and then come home and work 2 more hours on whistles. So answering emails has kinda not been a top priority. I am doing my best to get all orders done as soon as possible. I thank all those customers who have waited patiently, and I sincerely apologize for those who have had to wait extra time. The new model I posted on Facebook about is something I am working on at my new job. My new boss is nice enough to let me use the machines when things slow down once in a while.

As far as specifics on the new model, I figured everyone would understand that tuning isn't a super precise science as its a wind instrument, obviously you can adjust the tuning slightly by how you blow, but I was referring to the fact that in the past because I hand make everything some people have thought a couple of my whistles had tuning issues, and hopefully these new ones will be as close to spot on as possible.

As far as the Teflon, there is no point in which the Teflon would ever even be able to come into contact with your mouth or lips. Perhaps if you had a super tiny tongue and could stick it inside of the windway, but there is no Teflon on the outside of the mouthpiece. And, unlike your Teflon coated frying pan, the Teflon in the windway will not be heated to extreme temperatures or scratched with spoons or silverware, so there is no danger of degradation or Teflon coming off. The idea of the Teflon is that it works sort of like rainX. On your windshield and moisture will slide off of it easily making the moisture in the windway issue dissappear.


As far as future orders go, I will never put order buttons on a Web page again. In fact, I'm done making custom orders. The OP is the last custom order I will ever take. In the future I will only sell what is already made, (once I have no more outstanding orders) and I will most likely only sell through a distributor, as I'm no good at handling angry customers.

[whistlecollector]

Well, I know I'm not the most popular guy these days in the whistle world.

Well, speaking as one of those who have been waiting for one of your whistles for some time, I certainly don't want to add fuel to the fire at this point, but I would also encourage you, as well as you are able and with the gift of Grace, to simply accept that some "stiffed" customers will be more forgiving and others will be more venting. (I know I was more among the latter about this time last year when a similar thread came up, for which harshness of tone I apologize for.) I can only hope you will endure the range of customer responses with patience and try not to let anyone's emotional reaction affect your performance as a whistle maker or your ethical duty as vendor of the whistles you make! But let's face it -- we all ordered your whistles because they do seem to be very well made as well as lovely to look upon and hear! I suppose it is inevitable that unhappy customers will vent. (And I very much get that not all artisans are equally proficient / efficient as businessmen! But I guess that's were a business manager would step in to help!)

I ordered a whistle either two or three years ago -- twas shortly before the fire you mention -- which never arrived and I'm sure probably got lost somewhere in the unfortunate circumstances you recount below. I've contacted you a couple times, but figured that my order is now pretty hopelessly backlogged!

I was happy to see that you were offering whistles again on Ebay, and have thought a time or two of emailing you again to see where things stand, when what should I find on C&F today but this thread and your participation in it!

Just for the record, I don't really want a refund at all -- I would very much rather have the whistle I ordered! When I first saw your whistles, I thought they looked lovely and seem to be well made; recordings I heard sound good as well. For those reasons alone I've been willing to wait -- and hopefully I'll yet see a mailing tube from Ethnicwind with that long awaited whistle in it!

Let me be up front and say that I have made a lot of mistakes with customers, especially with regards to how long it will be before I finish their orders. I'm really bad at estimating that amount of time. And, as pointed out above I get about 40 emails about whistles a day. I try and go through them and respond at least once a week if I can. When I have customers who try to "shame" me into getting their orders it doesn't really make me feel like trying so hard. For the first 7 years of whistle making I had order buttons on my web page and I had no control over how many orders came in. For the most part I was able to keep up and keep all orders under 2 months. Then my instruments started getting very popular and I struggled to keep up. Right at the peak of orders (I was getting about 7 a day) my house burned, and I lost everything. Being that it was a traumatic experience, I spent the next 3 months trying to put my life back together, and I didn't spend much time making whistles. When I got an new workshop set up I was so far behind that I took the order buttons down. I have since refunded about 75% of those orders. Since the fire I have had to move unexpectedly twice, and I have also suffered from some serious medical conditions and depression which have not helped me with catching up. Since I have not been able to take new orders, I haven't had much of an income. I had a friend try to "help" by giving me a business, which ended up being a black hole of time. I sold the business and was planning on going back to full time whistle making living off of the money from the sale for a couple of months while I caught up on all my orders. When the OP emailed me asking if he could order I was just finishing up a few batches of orders and planned on having 3 more months to just catch up and I thought I could fit his order in with some batches that I already started. Sadly the guy I sold the business to has decided not to pay me anything or communicate in any way, so I have been forced to take a new job in order to feed my family. So I work 8 hours a day, and then come home and work 2 more hours on whistles. So answering emails has kinda not been a top priority. I am doing my best to get all orders done as soon as possible. I thank all those customers who have waited patiently, and I sincerely apologize for those who have had to wait extra time. The new model I posted on Facebook about is something I am working on at my new job. My new boss is nice enough to let me use the machines when things slow down once in a while.

As far as specifics on the new model, I figured everyone would understand that tuning isn't a super precise science as its a wind instrument, obviously you can adjust the tuning slightly by how you blow, but I was referring to the fact that in the past because I hand make everything some people have thought a couple of my whistles had tuning issues, and hopefully these new ones will be as close to spot on as possible.

As far as the Teflon, there is no point in which the Teflon would ever even be able to come into contact with your mouth or lips. Perhaps if you had a super tiny tongue and could stick it inside of the windway, but there is no Teflon on the outside of the mouthpiece. And, unlike your Teflon coated frying pan, the Teflon in the windway will not be heated to extreme temperatures or scratched with spoons or silverware, so there is no danger of degradation or Teflon coming off. The idea of the Teflon is that it works sort of like rainX. On your windshield and moisture will slide off of it easily making the moisture in the windway issue dissappear.


As far as future orders go, I will never put order buttons on a Web page again. In fact, I'm done making custom orders. The OP is the last custom order I will ever take. In the future I will only sell what is already made, (once I have no more outstanding orders) and I will most likely only sell through a distributor, as I'm no good at handling angry customers.

[nickthepiedpiper]

I'm not super proficient with the message board thing. So I can't see a real name which I can look up and find your order. I didn't think I still had any orders that far behind, so if you would be so kind as to email me to my new email address (I had service through a different company before and I was having lots of emails getting lost so I switched to Gmail, I think it's better) Ethnicwind.com@gmail.com

I have had an extremely hard time keeping up my list as the original was lost in the fire. I thought I had emails as back up, but after the email issues, and PayPal closing my account because so many people opened up cases against me. I have missed a couple here and there. So please email me, and I'll make sure you get your order.

[whistlecollector]

Thanks for responding! PM & email sent.

I'm not super proficient with the message board thing. So I can't see a real name which I can look up and find your order. I didn't think I still had any orders that far behind, so if you would be so kind as to email me to my new email address (I had service through a different company before and I was having lots of emails getting lost so I switched to Gmail, I think it's better) Ethnicwind.com@gmail.com

I have had an extremely hard time keeping up my list as the original was lost in the fire. I thought I had emails as back up, but after the email issues, and PayPal closing my account because so many people opened up cases against me. I have missed a couple here and there. So please email me, and I'll make sure you get your order.

[Tater]

Any "shaming" I've done is to get you to quit ignoring me, a customer who you over-committed to. You need to understand something very clearly, Nick. Had you not made a lot of verbal commitments to me regarding schedule, the FIRST EMAIL you would have received would have been today, at the 9 week mark. Don't lay this on me.

Nick, here's what I think in all honesty. You need a business manager. You have over-booked yourself and are destroying your own reputation.

And, if you don't "feel like trying so hard", what can I say. That sure doesn't make me feel like you are going to try and make a quality product for me but I hope you will. I don't like the feeling of not knowing when I am going to get what I paid for and there are a lot of con artists out there hence my personal concern.

I am not angry at you, Mr. Metcalf. If you'd have been honest with me up front, I would not have had to waste my time trying to get information on my order. With all of this, I still have no clue as to when to expect my whistles. If you don't "feel like trying so hard", simply return my money NOW and this will be over and I can buy my whistles elsewhere.

Back to teflon. I cannot think of a single teflon coated product that doesn't chip or peel over time. Make sure that doesn't become a problem with your new whistle design.

[Tater]

And today, May 25, 2016, my order has been completed.

That is 20 weeks after the order for the C and D whistles, and 18 weeks after the order for the G whistle. More on this later but for now, about the whistles themselves:

Material: excellent. CPVC body, aluminum and delrin (I think) fipple
Workmanship very well made. Mr. Metcalf said they would look like ivory and they certainly do.
Craftsmanship: top of the craft in my opinion.
Aesthetics: everything I expected and more.
Sound: the best way to describe the sound is WOW! Rich, warm full tone, good balance in volume up the scale, the perfect amount of chiff for that sexy, soulful sound I like. The scale on all three is sweet on all the notes.
Overall impressions: I am thrilled with these beautiful, artfully created, and technically superb instruments.

I had received the C and D whistles in early April, and there was a flaw with the D. After discussion, a replacement D whistle was to be sent with the G whistle (which had yet to be shipped) with a return label.

And here we are today.

My biggest complaint about all of this is that it took twice as long as the 9 weeks he suggested as a maximum wait time. This would have been tenable except that Mr. Metcalf repeatedly suggested on several occasions that it would be a couple of weeks. It would have been better for me if he'd been more realistic about his schedule.

So, in conclusion, Mr. Metcalf is an incredible craftsman with absolutely no idea how to plan and schedule his time. You can see some of the posts above. My recommendation to anyone buying an Ethnicwinds whistle is to pay for it C.O.D. I've dealt with a tool company where you order the tools, they are delivered along with an invoice, and you send in payment (Grace Tools). Not only would this give Mr. Metcalf a bit more incentive to get the job done on schedule as well as keeps your cash liquid until delivery.

[whistlecollector]

And today, May 25, 2016, my order has been completed.

Oh, okay. Wow!

I guess there is still hope my order will be completed soon....

That is 20 weeks after the order for the C and D whistles, and 18 weeks after the order for the G whistle. More on this later but for now, about the whistles themselves:

I have you beat there, Tater, what with me waiting now either 100 or 150 weeks...

Material: excellent. CPVC body, aluminum and delrin (I think) fipple
Workmanship very well made. Mr. Metcalf said they would look like ivory and they certainly do.
Craftsmanship: top of the craft in my opinion...

Well, I'm very glad to hear you like the whistles, and that they seem to be of very good quality! I still look forward to that moment of cracking open the shipping carton!