Opinions about Carbony flutes?

[jim stone]

I wonder if people who ave played these will share their impressions.
They sound very nice on the Carbony website videos.

[Tjones]

One of the people I play with has one of his flutes and a few of his whistles, the whistle are among his favorites. I didn't care much for the look of the flute and it didn't do much for me.  But this summer I met Rob at the Pipers Gathering and had the opportunity to see and play his new design based on Terry McGee's blueprint of a Boosey Pratten.  I ended up getting one.  The flutes I own are based on Rudals for the most part, so I've been pleasantly surprised with the quality of sound.  I was looking for a more powerful session type instrument, which I feel I got.  The flute is fun to play with a lot of potential, and hard to put down.

[rubenroks12]

I have a two-piece Carbony flute in F.

It's a great flute IMO. I find it easier to play than usual D flutes; so it's usually the flute to pick up when your embouchure is tired after a long day of playing. Since it's carbonfiber, it weighs practically next to nothing, so it also does your grip a favour. I love the tone I can get from it; dark and reedy with a sweet upper octave. It can easily be played loudly.

I find it easier to "fill" but maybe that is just because it's a few notes higher than the low Ds that I'm accustomed to.

It does take a little getting used to. Not much though, maybe just about 10-20 minutes after first trying it out (granted that you already play the flute.) I think this is because of the thinner chimney/walls of the embouchure, that require unforgiving aim (that probably does wonders for embouchure training though). Wood and delrin flutes have them thicker.

Since it's in F though, I usually just use it for solo playing. I can't speak for how the standard D Carbony flute plays.

[MKE_Chris]

I had the opportunity to try some briefly at last year's Milwaukee Irish Fest. I tried the rudall, the Pratten, and a couple of whistles. I know two people who have D whistles and they are quite nice. The flute? Eh... It was alright. I think the only reason I really wanted to buy it is because it's made of carbon fiber.

[Unseen122]

I came across Rob at a festival a couple of months ago. While the instruments certainly looked nice (good, clean workmanship from a cosmetic stand-point), I didn't really care for them then. Yet, a session a year or so before that, I had tried one of their low G whistles and thought that it was quite nice (the whistles I tried at his booth that day didn't really tickle my fancy either.) As mentioned above they do not have the same feel as wood; delrin, while not without its own flaws, I find to be much more similar to a wooden flute. I didn't think the tone was as rich as a flute with a deeper chimney either; it was bright, thin, and rough (IMO that's typical of synthetic flutes but it was way brighter/rougher than my Copley delrin) lacking the tonal palate for anything from a powerful, rich robustness to a sweet, genteel refinement one would expect from a wooden flute.

Also, for the price I expected way better intonation (on both the flutes and whistles) although that could have been due to the fact that I didn't know the instruments. Yet, after 11+ years of fluting for me to have trouble playing an instrument in tune is disconcerting. I most certainly would not rule out player error without really getting to know it over the course of a few weeks, plus intonation without a reference point is fairly subjective (i.e. just temperament may sound in tune to one person where another might hear equal temperament as in tune), but the intonation on the instruments I tried that did not leave me with a good impression.

Personally, if I was in the market for another non-wood flute I probably wouldn't get one of these. Then again everyone is different and other players may find Carbony flutes much more to their liking; these are only my first impressions after a few minutes of playing which could very well change if I spent a bit more time with one of their flutes.

[Tjones]

Avery,

I know you're a strong player, but the flute that I got doesn't fit your profile at all. The chimney height is the close to the same as my Copley, and maybe just a bit smaller than my Burns and Jon C. I play with CDs as a learning tool and the flute is right on as to being in tune with them. The flute is bright, but I don't think its thin or rough. I feel that the tonal palate is there just waiting for me to bring it out. That's why I feel it's hard to put down, it been a fun flute to play. I've had other Pratten style flutes that I wasn't able to find the same potential.

[Unseen122]

That's kind of what I was trying to get across; just because these flutes didn't really do much for me after playing them at a festival vendor area, with all sorts of noise and commotion around me, doesn't mean everyone will share my opinion. If I spent a bit more time with one of these flutes I could very well change my opinion, but this is the impression I had when I tried these flutes. I could easily be mis-remembering the height of the chimney or just had assumed it was on the thinner side without comparing it to something else side by side. As for intonation I think it likely comes down to this; every flute is going to require some adjusting and each one will require different adjustments. If I pick up a flute and automatically try to play it in tune using the same minute adjustments I use on my J. Gallagher Pratten (I believe most of these adjustments are, to an extent, subconscious but that's a different discussion) then the intonation may sound off to me. That isn't because the instrument is out of tune, or I'm incapable of playing in tune, it is because I am not playing the instrument the way the maker intended it to be played for it to be in tune. Spending time with an instrument would solve that issue, if indeed that was the issue. My opinion on these flutes is that there isn't anything wrong with them but there are other, similarly priced instruments which suit me better which I would, more than likely, purchase over one of these if I was in the market for something like this.

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

I'll put it like this: if you have a wooden flute from a respected maker, the Carbony is not likely to be an upgrade. If you are upgrading from a Tipple or something, then it might be more to your liking. The fact of the matter is that Rob's still dialing in his dimensions for these, and I can't in good faith recommend them just yet. I've played a recent version of his standard model flute as well as the Pratten.

However, all of the whistles I've got from him have had excellent intonation.

[jim stone]

Thanks, everybody. Most helpful.

[Tjones]

Jim here is a link to Calum Steward playing a Carbony flute ~ http://youtu.be/VBb6dBvDnIg

I think it's a good example of what the flutes can do.

I often wonder when I read some of these posts if its more of a refecltion of the player's ability than the potential of the instrument. I feel Avery's posts are a fair assessment of the way he saw the flutes. On the other had the assertion by madman is pretty harsh and damaging. Without more clarification as to his position I feel he is being unfair to this maker.

I have played flutes by some of the top makers that didn't impress me. Is it me or the flute.

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

Jim here is a link to Calum Steward playing a Carbony flute ~ http://youtu.be/VBb6dBvDnIg

I think it's a good example of what the flutes can do.

I often wonder when I read some of these posts if its more of a refecltion of the player's ability than the potential of the instrument. I feel Avery's posts are a fair assessment of the way he saw the flutes. On the other had the assertion by madman is pretty harsh and damaging. Without more clarification as to his position I feel he is being unfair to this maker.

I have played flutes by some of the top makers that didn't impress me. Is it me or the flute.

I encountered the same things as Avery in terms of chimney height and intonation, and saw no reason to reiterate them- the question was "Opinions about Carbony Flutes," so I gave mine. Rob's a great guy with some great ideas (and excellent whistles), but his flutes are not yet up to my personal standards. That's all there is to say on my end. If you want to attribute this to a lack of ability having never met me, go right ahead.

Edit: I should add that I resent the constant stream of "So-and-so makes it sound good" on every flute review. Just because an instrument *sounds* good doesn't mean it *feels* good to play and is therefore worth buying. I imagine I don't sound too bad on a Carbony, but it doesn't feel firm at all- I'm working to correct the idiosyncrasies of the instrument rather than focusing on the music.

[Tjones]

Thank you for your clarification ~
You’re right, having never met you I have no idea of your ability, or the amount of time you spent playing these flutes or how you based your opinion. I have never met Avery either, but I have heard his playing on youtube and have an acquaintance who highly recommended that I go hear him and his band. Avery clarified in his posts when he tried the flutes and I have a way to judge what he said and what he based his opinions on.

Youtube clips and reviews in forums like this are the life blood for a maker and a way for anyone interested in buying their flute, to find out more about it. A phrase like “and I can't in good faith recommend them just yet” and “but his flutes are not yet up to my personal standards” without the reasons for your opinion are damaging and there’s no way to judge if you know what your talking about, and if your issues with the instrument will affect a potential buyer in the same way.

“just because an instrument *sounds* good doesn't mean it *feels* good to play and is therefore worth buying. I imagine I don't sound too bad on a Carbony, but it doesn't feel firm at all- I'm working to correct the idiosyncrasies of the instrument rather than focusing on the music.”

With this statement I now know the why! It’s a fair statement and gives both a potential buyer and the maker valuable information ~ Having had a small hands version of the flute for over a week I can understand exactly what you mean. I asked Rob about it, and he immediately exchanged the body for a standard body. I’m not suggesting this was your issue, but for me it did make a difference.

[rubenroks12]

To add to this forum, IMO carbony flutes do not get the press they deserve. I read mixed reviews about them; a bit sad because of this.

I think this is because people simply don't get enough time with them. They are not exactly the wooden flutes that we are used to, but that does not mean they are bad, just different.

They take some time to get used to. Like any other flute, you acclimate to them. Carbony flutes have plenty of potential once you get used to them. You can easily get a full-round sound as you would any other good flute ( plus the care-free and lightweight benefits of carbon fiber).

-a regular carbony-flautist