Flipping Sindt Whistles

[ytliek]

Are people flipping Sindt whistles? eThingy shows it so. I find it insulting to the whistlemaker.

[Feadoggie]

Are people flipping Sindt whistles? eThingy shows it so.

No more so than with any other high demand whistle that's not readily available from the maker would think.

I find it insulting to the whistlemaker.

Michael Copeland sells his new whistles through eThingy. It's the global marketplace, or so they say. And the marketplace determines the price - reasonable (to you or I) or not. No reason John or any other whistle maker can't do the same.

Feadoggie

[Peter Duggan]

Are people flipping Sindt whistles?

Are they? Dunno, but might just point out that this is an Americanism that made no sense to me till Feadoggie's reply hinted at a meaning confirmed by Googling. Though at least I now know you meant neither tossing the whistles like pancakes nor comparing the people to [insert your own less-than-complimentary adjective here] Sindts!

[trekkie]

I don't think it's an insult. I think it is just a person's interests and circumstances can radically change after a three or more year wait for an instrument.

[brewerpaul]

As a maker I'd love to think that all of my buyers are going to keep their whistles forever. However, that's not realistic. No whistle is to everyone's taste, financial needs change etc. I'd rather have them sell the whistle to someone who will play it than having it sit in its case forever unplayed.

[ytliek]

Thanks for the replies and I appreciate them all. I get the marketplace eThingy bit, however, not everyone favors that particular market.

I'd just like to emphasize that there is a "difference" between the current cost from direct purchase with whistle maker to include the wait, and no wait purchase from eThingy. I would inquire about current cost from the maker. Seems the value is being determined from the wait vs. no wait time periods, rather the craftsmanship endeared to the whistle. I would wait it out for the craftsmanship.

As for people's situations changing during the wait list period, it happens, and to all of us.

[Peter Duggan]

eThingy

Assuming you mean eBay, why not give it its proper name?

Or perhaps you really meant eThingy, which is apparently 'Your one stop shop for eCigarette Accesories [sic] and Supplies'?

But I doubt it!

[ytliek]

eThingy

Assuming you mean eBay, why not give it its proper name?

Yes, I mean eBay.

I was trying to avoid using the specific name while attempting at a reference that would be understood by all.

[eskin]

I'm curious why do you care enough about this to write a post?

People buy and sell nice things all the time when their interests or priorities change, or they need money for an emergency.

[Nanohedron]

Are people flipping Sindt whistles?

Are they? Dunno, but might just point out that this is an Americanism...

In the States the word had been associated with housing real estate: buying expressly in order to re-sell at a profit, with or without improvements. It appears that the term has gained broader usage, which was probably inevitable. I believe another term for the practice is "Grey Market".

Though at least I now know you meant neither tossing the whistles like pancakes nor comparing the people to [insert your own less-than-complimentary adjective here] Sindts!

I confess I had two initial guesses as to the title's meaning: A sport in which one renders the Sindt airborne to land in reversed orientation in one's hand (we would hope), or a cry of distress about the product, after the manner of Andy Capp.

[Feadoggie]

after the manner of Andy Capp.

Which brings to mind these guys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWPf4qsc7Uw

[ytliek]

I'm curious why do you care enough about this to write a post?

People buy and sell nice things all the time when their interests or priorities change, or they need money for an emergency.

I am not speaking for John Sindt, nor have any commercial interest therewith. I have a respect for the craftsman. Any craftsman.

I just find it troubling when profiteers rake over the craftsman's effort to bring forth an affordable instrument at a reasonable cost. eBay allows much more into the broader market.

And eBay certainly makes the Chiff UIE less attractive for reselling an instrument.

From your statement,
If you knew that I was marketing your latest accordion gadets/apps on eBay or elsewhere and earning a considerable profit above what you are currently getting, you wouldn't have a concern? Just saying.

I am not trying to ruffle any feathers either, just let the buyer beware. Its cheaper elsewhere.

[eskin]

I have no problem with people buying instruments with long wait times and selling them at a markup.

The market will dictate what people will and won't pay for an instrument based on their situation. If I had the money available and had to choose between paying a 25-50% markup for an instrument I really wanted that I could have today vs. waiting for 5 years on a waiting list, I'd definitely pay the premium. I could be hit by a bus in 5 years, I'd rather have the instrument today.

I've done crazy things like fly from San Diego to Alaska to buy a specific maker's concertina rather than have to wait for 5 years, and yes, it cost me probably 25% more than I could have paid if I'd been willing to wait. But I had the instrument the same night, was able to play it before handing over the cash, and ended with both a great instrument and a great story. Last week I drove with my wife to Arizona to buy an accordion of similar rarity, again, ended up with a great instrument and a great story plus met some really nice people in the process.

For some people $100 vs $200 vs $2000 for a whistle is a big deal, for others it's the change in the dish on top of their dresser.

If you don't think it's right, don't buy from those who sell at a premium.

As far as anyone else, that's up to them.

[sbfluter]

I'm a fan of an instrument that has fallen prey to flipping. What some of the makers do is they have a policy for buyers that if you plan to sell your instrument you first offer to sell it back to the maker. Not all of them have this policy and of course it's not really enforceable. Meanwhile, those who do attempt to sell used instruments at inflated prices get a lot of negativity from the community that has formed around the instrument. The peer pressure seems to keep the flipping to a minimum and the prices stay pretty reasonable. Unfortunately then what happens is there are horrible quality ones at top-maker prices on eBay. But if you become a member of the community first, spend a couple months waiting, learning and listening, you won't fall prey and you can eventually get a nice instrument at a fair price.

[greenspiderweb]

Sure, this all depends on your own perspective, and what you are comfortable with when selling popular musical instruments that are handmade, or even just very hard to find. And yes, if a maker offers his at a reasonable price to make them more available to all, and it can be resold for double, triple, or more just because of rarity, or a closed wait list, etc, then it is a bit bothersome. But that is the way of the world, and no fretting about it can change things or people, nor stop them from making tidy profits at times.

I never made much money at all on my instrument sales. I was more interested in just getting back near what i paid, and sometimes even that was not possible. If I had more money, I would have either kept them, or at least had the choice of holding out for my desired price. But I'm also not much of a business man. I'd rather just not lose my pants on a deal, and move on, instead of always coming out ahead of the game.

I sold a Copeland Low D a few years back, and I chose to sell it here to those I knew, rather than go to Ebay. I got it for a very reasonable price from a kind Chiffer here, and passed on the savings to another appreciative Chiffer when I sold it. I hoped it would be enjoyed and used by the buyer, and played like it should be, and not bought just for an investment. I simply needed the cash at the time too. But the sale at least gave me the pleasure of passing my good fortune on to another whistler here, who also might not be able to afford it otherwise. I often wished I had kept it, as it played very well and I liked it very much. But I have learned to accept my lot in life, and know that I can't keep them all.

Do what you are comfortable with, and what makes it work for your circumstances. If you can afford to buy at high prices, or sell at a big profit, then good for you. But I just do not like investors (or collectors) driving up prices just to make a profit without wanting to use them for the reason they were made. That is where I draw my line because it affects so many potential players from ever knowing the pleasure of having one if it was available at a reasonable price. We may at least hope to glimpse Utopia (fair prices or good deals) occasionally, even if it is unreasonable to expect to find it usually.

Would I like to have a Copeland Low D again, if I could find one anywhere near what I sold mine for? Of course! But not to resell for a profit, just to enjoy and play while I'm still able to, which I doubt will be a long time. I also would have liked to try a Sindt one day, but I never did get along with the high whistles much, but still it would have been nice to see what the fuss is about, like everyone wonders who hasn't tried these two legendary whistles does. I have been very fortunate to be able to try many great low whistles (and other instruments) in my time, and the whistle remains my main instrument that I still play.

What matters most in the end really, is to enjoy what we have, and look forward to playing again tomorrow if given the chance. So, play on, and...

Have a Blast!