Cocobolo Irish Flute - Erik The Flutemaker??

[rubenroks12]

Hello Peeps!

I was wondering if any of you have tried the 1 piece cocobolo flute that Erik The Flutemaker is offering? Being less than than $200 USD, it sure is tempting. It also looks very unique. I like the minimalistic "pretty broomstick with holes" look. It really shows of the grain of the wood. He used to only offer ones in bamboo, but the cocobolo ones look much more promising. Take a look at the photo below.

How does it play? Is it well in tune? Concert pitch? How is the tone? Let us know if you've tried it out!

It is available for purchase through this link: http://eriktheflutemaker.com/collection ... c-cocobolo

[an seanduine]

Cocobolo is hyper-allergenic for some people. The health risks of long term exposure to cocobolo make these flutes extremely problematic.

Bob

[kkrell]

Cocobolo is hyper-allergenic for some people. The health risks of long term exposure to cocobolo make these flutes extremely problematic.

Bob

What he said. I will not handle cocobolo instruments for fear of sensitizing me to cocus or blackwood.

If you like the grain, get it under a finish, such as in the back of a guitar.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

Yes, the trick is not to use an oil finish (which just blends with the natural oils of the wood) but to use layers of some type of polymer or lacquer to create a barrier between the player and the wood.

I use cocobolo for the same sort of flutes, but they have marine epoxy in the bore, then CA glue on the outside (in several layers) followed by lacquer and then wax. Plus they have a lip plate of blackwood to keep the players mouth off the flute body. So far no problems, but I wouldn't do something like linseed oil, for example.

[rubenroks12]

I had no idea cocobolo could be so problematic

I am not sure how they are finished though. I dont know if Mr.Erik uses a laquer or an oil for finishing.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

I had no idea cocobolo could be so problematic

It varies from person to person quite a bit. I've worked with cocobolo for many years and have zero reaction to it. Other people get a bit of dust on them and break out in hives.

If you tend to be strongly reactive to things like poison oak or poison ivy, or have any tendency toward allergic reactions in general I'd stay away from it. Unless of course it is part of a guitar that is encased in acrylic

[rubenroks12]

Well, I have not encountered any allergic reactions to the many exotic hardwoods that I have come across although, I have had no experience with poison ivy or oak living in the middle of a very urbanized tropical city.

Thank you for the insight! I still might risk it if I hear any good news regarding the flute's playability. Should I break out in to an inflamed mess of hives, I could gift it to a hopefully non allergic friend

[kkrell]

The point that the OP is missing is this:

A reaction to cocobolo might not be a temporary condition. Sensitivity can result in a prolonged or lifetime *acquired* allergy to blackwood (a common flute wood), or members of the rosewood family. It's also not limited to lip sensitivity (which can be mitigated by a lip plate), but some individuals will react where their fingers handle the instrument as well.

[rubenroks12]

Well, now that is a terrifying prospect. I wouldnt want to be stuck with delrin and pvc for the rest of my life.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

Well, now that is a terrifying prospect. I wouldnt want to be stuck with delrin and pvc for the rest of my life.

It wouldn't necessarily be that desperate Flutes can be made from lots of woods that are not rosewood, but if you had a serious rosewood sensitivity it might limit your choices.

As a maker I've been exploring a lot of alternatives to tropical hardwoods for flute making. I love using rosewoods (who doesn't?) but sourcing them might prove difficult in the long run. Cocobolo has made the CITIES list and other woods may follow. Finding more common (and less potentially allergenic) hardwoods for flute making is a good idea. A friend set me up with some dogwood and some pieces of hawthorne. Both have excellent qualities for woodwinds (I especially like the hawthorne). Very boxwood-esque.

[Feadoggie]

How does it play? Is it well in tune? Concert pitch? How is the tone? Let us know if you've tried it out!

OK, I'll weigh in with my opinion. I've played a number of Erik the Flutemaker's flutes over the years. I used to run into him at one or another Ren Faire or other festivals. Most I've played were cane flutes but some were his timber model. I don't really remember if they were cocobolo or not but they may have been. I do not recall there being any finish on the wood at all. (Many exotics really don't need a finish for aesthetic reasons since they polish so nicely without any coatings.) I do not think that ETF's flutes are anything special or a good value IMO. That's just my impression. You can get better sounding and playing flutes for similar or a little more money and they will not be a one piece design, should be tunable, will have good chimney depth, stronger tone, better octave balance, etc.

One of Geoffrey's flutes would be a better choice IMO. Yes, these are one piece flutes too.

He usually has a variety of timbers available to choose from. No need to worry about cocobolo allergies. http://ellisflutes.com/transverse-flute ... rse-flutes

I wouldnt want to be stuck with delrin and pvc for the rest of my life.

That's not such a bad thing, especially if it becomes our reality due to CITES and other factors. There's a place for polymer flutes in the world I think. I'd offer that a Tipple PVC flute is a better choice than ETF's cocobolo flute. Cocobolo is certainly nicer looking. Delrin can be used to make a flute that will stand up in any climate, even tropical heat and humidity, that's the equal of many a timber flute. Wood is a composite fiber/resin material in its natural form anyway. Cellulose is a major component of wood's structure, so it is substantially a polymer material when you think about it.

Geoffrey, how's the vacuum infusion process going? I've gotten my chamber working for whistle blanks recently.

Feadoggie

[dyersituations]

Is cocobolo the main wood that people tend to have allergic reactions to? Rosewoods are a pretty common material for flutes and pipes.

[kkrell]

Is cocobolo the main wood that people tend to have allergic reactions to? Rosewoods are a pretty common material for flutes and pipes.

Actually, lots of woods are potentially toxic. Cocobolo just happens to be one of those I've seen reported most often, and, anecdotally causing prolonged sensitivity when one is normally NOT generally sensitive already to other woods. Still, there's a long list, many having similar effect, though perhaps hopefully not to the same degree.

Following are quotes from the Wood Database (boldface mine):

What is a Sensitizer?

You’ve probably already heard the term desensitized—usually in reference to violent movies or images—meaning that we start off as naturally being sensitive to something, and upon more and frequent exposure, we become less and less sensitive to its effects.

Well, with some woods that have been classified as being a sensitizer, the opposite is true: the more we are exposed to a wood’s sawdust or other fine particles, the more sensitive we get to its exposure, and the more severe and adverse the reactions become.

If you ever have an allergic reaction to any wood that has been identified as a sensitizer, use extreme caution in handling or using that species (and related species) in future instances. Some have reactions so severe that they simply have had to stop and discontinue using certain wood species altogether. (Cocobolo is notorious in this regard.)

Table of Woods
Wood Allergies and Toxicity:
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-artic ... -toxicity/

Allergies/Toxicity: Although severe reactions are quite uncommon, African Blackwood has been reported as a sensitizer. Usually most common reactions simply include eye, skin, and respiratory irritation.

Many of the rosewoods are categorized in the same manner as above. An individual might have a reaction, but severe ones are uncommon. There also seems to be more risk to woodworkers from inhaling/ingesting dust (and some skin contact) while working with the woods, than in general handling of a finished product.

Allergies/Toxicity: Notoriously allergenic. Reported as a sensitizer; can cause skin, eye, and respiratory irritation, as well as nausea, pink-eye, and asthma-like symptoms.

[dyersituations]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I have heard that African blackwood can be harmful to work with as a maker.

[socar52]

I must be one of the lucky ones. I've got a Brazilian rosewood flute I've owned and played for decades with no problem. But then I'm aware of the risks of a lot of woods and don't take many chances beyond Rosewood, Blackwood, and Boxwood.