Does SIZE matter?

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 2:51 pm

I have been disapointed at many a session, by the absence of Bass and Contrabass woodwinds to "ground out" the music and fill in the backgound with their wonderful harmonics. Here are a few examples...

The Sub Contrabass Recorder (practical?)
http://uk.geocities.com/geoffw27/Recorder/SubCb.jpg

The Paetzold Square Contrabass in F
http://lachesis.caltech.edu/jayeaston/g ... etzold.gif

The Galactic Bamboo Flute
http://www.romyb.com/graphics/gal_flute_8.jpg

A very rare Double Fujara (a type of contrabass tabor pipe with 3 toneholes{each tube here})
http://www.volny.cz/vico/koblicek/image ... ujara1.JPG

Dale Wisely's Super Secret Sub Contrabass Series!!!
http://www.corbie.com/Images/organ_pipes.jpg

These examples are for fun, but would any of you consider playing bass whistles if they were inexpensive and easy to play? I believe they could be made to be so.

Beginers would love these instruments because they play slow paced background notes with rest intervals between sets. In this way,beginers could play with the pro's all night without being "pushed out" when things speed up. Any opinions?

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:31 pm

Oh yes....this would be a Very Cool Thing! As long as I didn't pass out from lack of oxygen!

Thomas, I'd love to try it out in session!

msheldon · Post by **msheldon** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 5:00 pm

In that vein, there's a cello player who shows up to our sessions occasionally. I wish she would come more often, it's *really* nice to have some bass added to the mix.

Soineanta · Post by **Soineanta** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 5:27 pm

I think an instrument like that would be way cool, I'd definitly want to try one out! (It would also be more effective for the use of smacking family members who call it a "flute".)

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 8:48 pm

I've looked at these so called "recorder" thingies before!

They don't have a play or record button anywhere, but what they do have is far too many holes.

Obviously, a tool of the devil trying to lure you down the dark path.

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:55 am

You had to post a question like that for an old tuba player to see. Shame!
Put me at the top of the list to test and evaluate. I'll dwell on this idea all day and probably have some interesting dreams this week.

Mike

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:48 pm

Thank you all for your answers. I belive that an efficient contrabass whistle is not a "pipedream", if you will excuse the pun. An expanding conical headjoint, like a Boehm flute, coupled with a voicing like this one...

http://www.organstops.org/o/OrchFlute2$.gif

...would reduce wind usage to a minimum and result in a powerful tone. A simple keyworks and a bocal mouth tube would complete the package for easy fingering. I'll keep you posted with any future prototypes. Thanks again for your responses.

markv · Post by **markv** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:58 pm

Thomas-Hastay wrote:Thank you all for your answers. I belive that an efficient contrabass whistle is not a "pipedream", if you will excuse the pun. An expanding conical headjoint, like a Boehm flute, coupled with a voicing like this one...

http://www.organstops.org/o/OrchFlute2$.gif

...would reduce wind usage to a minimum and result in a powerful tone. A simple keyworks and a bocal mouth tube would complete the package for easy fingering. I'll keep you posted with any future prototypes. Thanks again for your responses.

Thomas,

Nice illustration link. Did you notice that the cross section depicted is very similar to how the voicing works on a Native American flute? I wonder if there would be any octave problems as a result? The reason I ask is that on NA flutes you really only have about 9 notes on a six hole flute and overblowing doesn't work as in a whistle voicing. Organ pipes are also voiced for a single octave. Is that just inherent in this type of "upside down" arrangement? I've always wondered about that.

Mark V.

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:03 pm

Hi Mark

In both cases you stated, the answer is excessive bore diameter,not voicing design. Most N/A flutes and organ pipes have oversized internal bores that prohibit or restrict harmonic overblowing.

A rough minimum ratio of borelength to diameter between 1/26 to 1/40 is needed to overblow harmonic registers. If the bore diameter is larger, the instrument will not have enough acoustic energy to produce harmonic overtones

WyoBadger · Post by **WyoBadger** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:01 pm

Thomas,
Have you ever heard of Colcannon? They're a band from Denver/Laramie, fairly well-known around here. They have a bass player, really good (he plays with the Cheyenne Symphony, too). While not exactly "traditional," it really does ground the sound. He plays a pretty mean slip jig, too!

Of course, I'm another old low brass player (euph and tuba) and I think most bands sound top heavy, so I freely admit I'm biassed. I always try to tune my bodhran to a low d for sessions just to add a small bit of bottom end.

Tom

WyoBadger · Post by **WyoBadger** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:03 pm

p.s. I've also done some experimenting with adding tuba and euphonium to some Scottish tunes on recordings (it would probably never work live--too loud), mostly playing chords and occasionally joining in on the melody. You might be surprised how well the sound blends with whistle/guitar. Stay tuned.

TW

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:21 pm

WyoBadger wrote:Of course, I'm another old low brass player (euph and tuba) and I think most bands sound top heavy, so I freely admit I'm biassed. I always try to tune my bodhran to a low d for sessions just to add a small bit of bottom end.

Tom

We'll get you a bass nose flute next year, Tom.

WyoBadger · Post by **WyoBadger** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:25 pm

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:20 pm

Thomas,
I know someone who has a Paetzold contrabass, those mouthpieces tend to clog and he has had troble with wood rippling and shrinking.

I hope to make one out of Delrin. Have you seen my first basswhistle? It's a 6 hole all keyed whistle an octave below middle-C (Low-C). It uses 1 1/2" PVC pipe.

I'm still in the design phase on the chromatic bass whistle - I hope to use a product like "hollowood" to make the tonebody and use brass keys.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:03 am

Daniel, aren't the Paetzold basses made of planks mostly to ease the construction of a conical bore (I guess a 3 feet long reamer might be hard to find

)? And doesn't this help to get to and through a second register?

Now there's another manufacturer of "square" basses--Dolmetsch, a brand not to neglect in, er, vertical fippled flutes...

Check out: http://www.dolmetsch.com/millennium.htm

or see this...