Help a Newbie

[ursa_major]

I have come into whistling from completely the wrong end? When I retired I decided to make a whistle - just something I have always wanted to do I had never touched one before.
I quickly found the two main sites on the net, Guido's plastic whistles and the Copper Development association so I had a go at both - both were playable. I modified these, created hybrids and generally messed about till I got something that to me sounded quite good. Then the problems started!! Obviously I had to blow into the things to see if they whistled so I though wouldn't it be good to be able to play a simple tune so I started to learn how to play.
Then of course I needed to know how my whistles compared with the real thing. I picked up a cheap mass produced whistle and was disappointed when it squawked like a dying seagull. OK may have been a poor one so try another make - this was more like a strangled cat. You can see where this goes; 9 whistle later from 5 different makers and I still have not got an off the shelf whistle that plays both octaves reasonably well, most cannot even make a scale.
Can someone advise what whistle I should consider that will play out of the box? I have looked at all the reviews I can find but at the low end there seem to be as many critics as there are praisers for each whistle. I have looked at loads on E-Bay but no one will accept returns that have been played quoting hygiene. (what about trade descriptions). Any help appreciated.
Bruce

[Peter Duggan]

Can someone advise what whistle I should consider that will play out of the box?

All of them, or almost all (yes, really!). Generation, Dixon, Feadog etc. They all work, so afraid you'll have to look at what you're doing if you've got nine that don't.

[Kypfer]

All of them, or almost all (yes, really!). Generation, Dixon, Feadog etc. They all work,

... I'm in agreement with Peter, the odd one completely faulty whistle might be unusual, but all of them ... unlikely. Judging from your description, "squawked like a dying seagull ... another make - this was more like a strangled cat" you're simply blowing too hard and maybe (just maybe) your home-made whistles are wanting in as much as they need too much wind to get them to work at all.

Just food for thought

[Feadoggie]

Welcome to the C&F neighborhood.

I will pile on here and agree with both Kypfer and Peter Duggan. One whistle - could be the whistle. 9 whistles - there's a high likelihood that you might want to look into your basic technique.

There are a lot of whistle makers around here, including myself. One topic that comes up frequently with novice whistle smiths is what is required to make a whistle. While most of the discussion usually get into tools and crafting methods I generally feel compelled to talk about being able to actually play the whistle fairly well. Honestly, you can be a terrific craftsman but unless you can play the thing you have no way to evaluate the results. Yes, some makers will rely of other skilled players for feedback. That's a good practice. But it is not particularly valuable when you are sitting at the bench voicing your whistles. It's best to know what you are making from the perspective of a player.

I do have a couple of whistles here made by Guido Gonzato himself. They are pretty nice whsitles too. I have had played and owned a buch of whistles made by others to the specs on Dr. Gonzato's site and they have been generally disappointing. The difference I suspect is in how well equipped the makers are to evaluate the whistles they make. The results of cookbook whistle making are rarely tasty.

Keep up the whistle making. It's a fun hobby. As your playing progresses you will start to notice things in your whistles that can be improved. Have patience. Have fun. It's called playing for good reason.

Can someone advise what whistle I should consider that will play out of the box?

This isn't a hard question to answer. But it may cost a little more than you are ready to spend at the moment. There are a host of very well known and well respected whistle makers out there. And they have all earned their reputations by delivering whistles that work well - right out of the box (although most whistles do not come in a box). I could run a list of makers here but the myriad sites of collected whistle reviews already do that. Start with a Goldie or a Burke and you'll quickly see what you are up against. There are many, many more makers that could be suggested here but those two are above others most widely regarded as makers of good whistles.

Feadoggie

[trill]

. . . squawked like a dying seagull . . .

Hi ursa_major,

Welcome to whistling !

The most common reason a whistle will squeak is incomplete closure of the holes by the fingers.

I suggest

1) check your breath pressure by making sure you can hit 2 separate octaves with all holes open. Start with very low pressure and ramp it up. Tonguing makes for easier starts, but this exercise is aimed at only finding (getting a feel for) the right breath pressure for your whistle.

2) After getting #1 above, try the same thing with just the top hole closed. If you get a squeak, experiment with slightly different finger positions to to close holes. It'll be there somewhere, I promise.

3) Repeat until you work your way all the way down to all holes closed.

When I was just starting, it took me months to reliably close the bottom 2 holes. Until I could do that, my playing was filled with awful-sounding squawks.

Good luck !

trill

[ytliek]

Welcome to the whistle forum. I am not a whistle maker so I can't help you with that process.

Don't get discouraged... you're retired... so you have a lot of time to work out the kinks in your whistle design and playing.

Just have fun as the squeaks and squeals are a badge of honor!

[weedie]

Like others have said... it could be your 'newbie-ness' giving you grief ..
One sure fire way to get a Whistle that is guaranteed to have no issues is to purchase one of Jerry Freemans' tweaked whistles.. Jerry takes a mass produced whistle eg: Generation and works on it to make sure it is playing nicely.
He sells them at a very reasonable price as well..
After the purchase,then you'll have no one to blame but yourself ..
Jerry is a member on these pages and has a website... Google is your friend...

[Ben Steen]

Hello, Bear, you have me poised in great anticipation. Who are the 5 whistle makers?

Ben

[Cayden]

Welcome to C & F.

Cheers,
Cayden

[ursa_major]

Thanks to every one for their input, I really don't know what to do now. Should I just be grateful that I now have in my humble opinion 9 nice sounding, easy playing whistles in three keys and leave it there? (2 completely scratch built, 6 refippled cheapies and another tweaked (I tweaked a blue conical bore cheapie today and it now plays quite nicely with a piece of peanut butter jar lid glued to the blade then sharpened)) The best alternative is Weedies suggestion of buying a Freeman Tweaked whistle as I can at least be confident that it has been individually tested.
Thanks also to those who suggested driver error which was a distinct possibility with my limited experience but I am satisfied that my technique for all its inadequacy is good enough to rule out the simple beginners faults and as I mention above the latest simple tweak to a basic whistle means I can now play it comfortably right through both octaves.
If any one lives in North Leicestershire who would be prepared to let me try their Goldie or similar I wold be eternally grateful
Bruce

[Peter Duggan]

Should I just be grateful that I now have in my humble opinion 9 nice sounding, easy playing whistles in three keys and leave it there?

How do you know they're easy playing? Have you really got the expertise to tell or could you simply have created nine 'high-pressure' variants of your own?

The best alternative is Weedies suggestion of buying a Freeman Tweaked whistle as I can at least be confident that it has been individually tested.

FWIW (with no disrespect to Jerry, who's got a consistent record of doing things many folk like with them), I just don't think all these cheap whistles need tweaking and can't see it as the panacea some here appear to. So of course they play, but IMHO sometimes as much differently as necessarily 'better' than the base instruments (eg my Freeman Gen Bb compared to the stock example purchased simultaneously for comparison) and I still just don't believe you had nine complete duds from nine!

Thanks also to those who suggested driver error which was a distinct possibility with my limited experience but I am satisfied that my technique for all its inadequacy is good enough to rule out the simple beginners faults and as I mention above the latest simple tweak to a basic whistle means I can now play it comfortably right through both octaves.

But how do you know you're creating whistles that play as they should rather than your admittedly limited experience leads you to expect? Or that a more experienced player wouldn't have thought the response more comfortable how it was?

[ursa_major]

Yes thanks Peter, those are of course exactly the points I was trying to resolve for myself when I bought my first stock whistle. In my innocence I assumed that any off the peg whistle from a popular company would be free of any significant problems and would certainly outperform my own efforts so I would have a reliable yardstick for comparison.
When I failed to find such I turned to this forum (where I have been a guest for nine months) in the hope that someone could recommend a dependable whistle from the cheaper end of the market or advise how much I might have to spend.
I do not believe that any beginner (the probable market for such whistles) would have achieved better results than I did with the ones I bought. Although I am a beginner I have now been playing for about a year, and revisiting the remaining purchased whistles produces no better results.
I am not sure what is meant by high pressure but mine require very little "blow" to produce clear notes and certainly less than the ones I bought particularly in the upper reaches.
Dud of course is hard to define - IMHO a whistle should be capable of producing "recognisable" musical notes all the way through the two registers without "excessive" effort and capable of smooth changes from note to note. I have had whistles that have beautiful tone in the first octave almost without being aware of blowing but require a real physical effort to achieve anything like a note beyond that and a separate lungful of air for each high note. (italics suggest further terms undefined)
I appreciate your input
Bruce

[Mr.Gumby]

Maybe a clip or two of the sounds you make would clarify things?


And I must declare here I am firmly in the camp that thinks that cheap whistles out of the box will work 99% of the time and that before you make something, you need to be able to drive it well. But the only way to resolve this is to let us hear what you're talking about.

[ursa_major]

Don't think I have the technology - will check with my son.
Bruce