I know there are a lot of album recommendations, but which 3 whistlers do you think would be good to get newbies started with Irish trad.?
It's so easy to get sidetracked with all the whistles out there to buy and try, and for those of us who haven't always listened to much Irish trad., the selection of albums can be overwhelming when deciding where to start too. Some of the reason for the question is for my own benefit (3 years is still a newbie IMO), although lately Mary Bergin's Feadóga Stáin CD is loaded with the shuffle and repeat functions on for daily listening. The other reason is to maybe help out some other newbies get off to a good start, and keep it simple (why 3 instead of say, 5 or 10).
OK, so this is a can of worms in the making. You find the three whistlers whose style appeals the most to you. Pick the ones you want to play like. And then learn how.
There is no simple list. The recording list of whistlers at the top of the page already simplified the search for you. And I hope Robbie MacGowran's album called The Irish Way (2013) can be added to the list above.
Newbies have to identify the music for themselves. Listen to all of it.
I'm still newbie-ish too. Look over to your left, that's me, penurious, tone-deaf, wannabe whistler.
You should listen to what you enjoy most. Whatever grabs you and whatever speaks to you.
I said it earlier this week: there is no point in listening to what you're told you should appreciate, before you understand why you should.
And then there's the issue of what kind of style you enjoy listening to. Listen to what you enjoy and to players who play like you would want to play yourself. There's no point in recommending you spend your time studying Micho Russell if you aspire to play like Gavin Whelan, for example.
It's all in your own hands. You'll have to choose your own path before anyone can help you along. Meanwhile listening to anything you come across is probably a good idea, just get an idea what you like and take it from there.
ytliek wrote:OK, so this is a can of worms in the making. You find the three whistlers whose style appeals the most to you. Pick the ones you want to play like. And then learn how.
There is no simple list. The recording list of whistlers at the top of the page already simplified the search for you. And I hope Robbie MacGowran's album called The Irish Way (2013) can be added to the list above.
Newbies have to identify the music for themselves. Listen to all of it.
I'm still newbie-ish too. Look over to your left, that's me, penurious, tone-deaf, wannabe whistler.
I was just trying to think of a way to help other newbies out. That's quite a list at the top of the page, and thought maybe saying, "Here, grab an album or two by these and you'll be off to a good start." would be a good idea. That's what I get for thinking.
voggy_dog wrote:Joanie Madden is a good artist to start with.
Her and Mary Bergin. Besides being great players, those two are easy to find at the common CD/MP3 music stores on the dubya-dubya-dubya.
Good points made by everyone. Oh well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
As a beginner, I think Micho Russell is the absolute best. Of course that's my own bias because I happen to like his style, but I think anybody could learn a lot from his playing, given that he emphasizes rhythm and phrasing vs. speed or fancy ornaments. The more virtuosic players don't always get my foot tapping.
Micho Russell is definitely one of my favorites. The way he played tunes just seems to stick in my head more.
Then I'll listen to Mary Bergin, who causes the foot to start tapping too. No doubt she has the skills with the twiddly bits, but I think her rhythm and phrasing are awesome.
I agree with what has been said here.
But I cant't help it, I have to recommend Enda Seery's "The Winding Clock" in addition.
This Album still carries me away.
Maybe it's the way you framed your question that's the problem. You already have a list of recordings you can pick from but you gave no indication of what you would like to hear or what you're aiming for. It's a bit like going to a library and ask for the three books you should read. Or the classic 'which whistle should I buy?' .Even if there were an answer, there needs to be more information to give you an answer that can possibly suit you as an individual. If there isn't, there's a big chance you will get pointed to playing that won't suit you at this time or that will put you off for any number of other reasons.
There's something to be said for listening for a style of music played on a variety of instruments rather than many styles played on the one instrument. So, if you like Micho Russell, look at North Clare/Kilfenora styles first maybe and branch out to more layered/complex styles once you get the hang of what's going on there. There's no harm in listening to whatever you can get your hands on in the meantime, who knows what will grab you. Just play it by ear and find your own way.
I have sprinkled some stuff I like to listen to or have learned things from here in the past, but I suppose there's a time and place for everything and what suited me at one point may not suit you right now (try THIS for example)
So don't look on this as unwillingness to help, but, the way I see it, any open invitation will result in an un-tailored and endless list of peoples' favourite whistle players and you will end where you started, with the list of all available recordings.
Tell us something.: I play high and low whistle with Traditional Irish Music being my focus of interest. I love Irish music and consider it as a direct connection to my Irish heritage. I enjoy participation in whistle tours, chatting with other players, and learning much from the many talented folks that frequent C & F.
Mr.Gumby is spot on, ye have to make ye own way, and listen to ALL ye can along the journey. Ye own distillation will happen naturally from there.
Cheers,
Cayden
"TEAM TRAD" Pro Staff
Official Life Member of DUBLIN DUCK DYNASTY
"Joanie Madden, Mary Bergin, and Andrea Corr, each a Whistle Goddess in her own right"!
Mr.Gumby wrote:
So don't look on this as unwillingness to help, but, the way I see it, any open invitation will result in an un-tailored and endless list of peoples' favourite whistle players and you will end where you started, with the list of all available recordings.
Oh, I'm not. The folks here have been very helpful. I guess I was just trying to find something to contribute here. The "which whistle should I buy?" threads don't really interest me. 95% of the time I grab my Generation D, and 100% of the time know that if something doesn't sound right it's the idiot who's playing it. So there's no desire to add to the handful of whistles I've got.
The question was general because I thought it would be a good way to go for other newbies too. But like you said, that will just end up with another long list.
Ah well... I have a lot of ideas, and not all of them are good. On the bright side, other newbies might see this and pick up something from it. Even if it's what not to do. LOL
There's something to be said for listening for a style of music played on a variety of instruments rather than many styles played on the one instrument. So, if you like Micho Russell, look at North Clare/Kilfenora styles first maybe and branch out to more layered/complex styles once you get the hang of what's going on there.
That's a great idea. I've thought about listening to other instruments more, but it hadn't occurred to me yet to check into which style those other instruments were playing.
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years. These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
I think a newbie to any genre is well served by listening to classic iconic idiom-defining players initially, to help their ear get hold of the things that delineate the genre.
There's always time, once one's ear understands the core stylistic traits of the genre, to get into obscure or fringe players.
I think this is very different for Irish people and non-Irish people. It was expressed to me 30 years ago by an excellent player, an American who had just returned from a few years living in Ireland:
"We outsiders are always searching for 'the sound'. Irish people already have it."
I understand this completely because I'm from Appalachia. My grandfather played fiddle and banjo. Were I, tomorrow, to start playing that music I would have 'the sound' because I know no other! 'The sound' is all around you there. There are players everywhere, live music everywhere.
About 'listening to the players you like' yes, but if somebody is coming from outside a genre they, for lack of a better way of saying it, don't know what they should like.
Let me explain: I've been playing Highland pipes for 40 years now, have spent most of my life in that genre. The genre has a history, a Hall Of Fame of iconic players, a fairly standardized pedagogy, a rich repertoire, famous composers, a family tree of famous teachers, a family tree of famous makers, stylistic norms, and everything else one might expect from a fully developed traditional musical genre. But! a guy named Rufus Harley came along and didn't bother with any of this stuff, taught himself how to play (with incorrect fingerings which resulted in a horridly out of tune scale) and began making albums of his own odd compositions (he states he was commanded by a pagan god to do so). Were a newbie to listen to Harley, the newbie wouldn't gain any understanding whatsoever of Highland piping.
Anyhow I would always recommend Mary Bergin as a starting point for a newbie whistler. Classic, iconic, idiomatic playing.
Richard Cook c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
Anyhow I would always recommend Mary Bergin as a starting point for a newbie whistler. Classic, iconic, idiomatic playing.
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I would suggest to a beginner there are too many complexities and things in her playing to grasp. Expose a beginner to it and it's more likely to dazzle than enchant them.
Her style is a personal one, made up of elements of the players that influenced her when she was learning. From a learning point of view a beginner may well be better served by less dazzling players with clear rhythms and phrasing. Once there's an understanding of those basics, move on to Bergin or similar players.
A friend of mine used to say how he asked who to listen to when taking up the pipes. Take Séamus Ennis someone told him and gave him 'Jenny's welcome to Charlie' to listen to. It put him off the pipes for years, it was only when he heard Leo Rowsome (and soon after Tommy Reck) he was drawn back in again and it took him years to get to an appreciation of what Ennis was doing. And I know have heard similar from several people. I think the same applies to Mary Bergin's playing.
Mr.Gumby wrote:
I would suggest to a beginner there are too many complexities and things in her playing to grasp. Expose a beginner to it and it's more likely to dazzle than enchant them.
Her style is a personal one, made up of elements of the players that influenced her when she was learning. From a learning point of view a beginner may well be better served by less dazzling players with clear rhythms and phrasing. Once there's an understanding of those basics, move on to Bergin or similar players.
A friend of mine used to say how he asked who to listen to when taking up the pipes. Take Séamus Ennis someone told him and gave him 'Jenny's welcome to Charlie' to listen to. It put him off the pipes for years, it was only when he heard Leo Rowsome (and soon after Tommy Reck) he was drawn back in again and it took him years to get to an appreciation of what Ennis was doing. And I know have heard similar from several people. I think the same applies to Mary Bergin's playing.
I had to shelve the Mary Bergin albums for quite a while because of that. They are listened to more now, along with Joanie Madden, but my ears still really aren't ready to grasp a lot of what they are doing. The Chieftains and Micho Russell get more listening time. Many of their tunes are a little slower, and I'm drawn into the melody and rhythm more than being dazzled. Right now I'm working on learning The Steamroller Macteige's Polka from the Ireland's Whistling Ambassador album. A few parts need ironing out yet, but the sheet music hasn't been used for this one. It quickly got stuck in my head and after a few listens I was walking around humming/whistling the basics of the tune.
As a newbie, I'm glad that a Micho Russell album was the 1st one purchased. Although now I know there was a genius to his playing that made it seem simple, but listening to him 1st made the idea of being able to do it seem possible.
