Breath and phrasing in reels

[squidgirl]

The whistle teacher I had started everyone with jigs, which worked (perhaps too) comfortably for me, and in my spotty whistling career since then, I've simply continued exploring jigs, because I got along well with them. I did some forum searching, and was reassured to see how many others confessed to having a similar jig habit.

It took me a long time to understand reels, unless they were almost hornpiped. Hornpipes were my first favorite among the ITM dance forms to play, and I do still mix my jigs with a dash of hornpipes. And I went through a polka phase, but I don't think I ever learned to phrase them right, or infuse them with a good nyah.

But it took me a looong time to even *hear* reels properly, and to keep track of where in the song structure was. So I started out reel-impaired. But I've learned to enjoy hearing them, and keep wanting to play them... but my phrasing isn't right.

This is why I started that other transcription thread. Transcribing helped me figure out jigs, so I'll try with reels too.

Are there specific whistle or flute players whose phrasing I might especially want to focus on, or any particular recordings? What kind of idioms of breath or phrasing I should be listening for? What insights that that turned on the lightbulbs in your head, helping you understand better how to break the stream of notes into more expressive segments?

I know that as a general rule I want to drop notes which are *not* on the beat or sub-beat, but I don't have a good feel for what shapes are more idiomatic.

[Mr.Gumby]

I think for a detailed description and aiming to gain a better understanding you can do worse than look at Mary Bergin's tutor.

As for who you should listen to, that really depends on what you're aiming for. There's a wealth of good playing available in a variety of styles. Listen to the sort of music you would like to play.

It would perhaps also make sense to start listening to relatively simple styles with strong phrasing and rhythm to get you into recognising what is going on on that level before you move to more complex playing.

Same for the material you look at, it makes sense to look at reels with a simple structure first before you move on to the 'big' tunes. I mean, for a relatively inexpereineced listener it's easier to work out the (rhythmic) structure of the Monaghan Twig than that of, say, The Salamanca.

But first of all, pick listening material you enjoy, stuff that speaks to you. That's more useful than picking stuff you are told you should appreciate before you have quite figured out why you should.

[StevieJ]

The only thing I can think of (at the moment) to add to Mr. G's excellent advice is to listen attentively to reels played solo on instruments other than whistle - fiddle & pipes particularly, because some of the articulation used by pipers can be emulated on the whistle, and especially fiddles because the fiddle bow is the supreme rhythmic and phrasing device IMO. This ought to help you internalise the things that go on in reels.

When you first listen to good players you focus on the melody and the decorations, but eventually you may realise - as I did in a road to Damascus moment a long time ago now - that as well as playing a lovely tune they are stating the rhythm, laying down a rhythm, with great force and clarity. Hitting you around the head with it, really, and how come you missed it all that time?

[Mr.Gumby]

Hm, yes I had that one down too but after advocating focus on the simple things and not focus on too many things at once I thought introducing listening different solutions to the same problems that other instruments introduce would seem to undermine my own point. So I threw that out again after a while.

But yes, it's essential to listen to other instruments and you can never hear enough good fiddle playing. and second yes, rhythm is the key.

[pancelticpiper]

Are there specific whistle or flute players whose phrasing I might especially want to focus on, or any particular recordings?

Seems to me that whistle and flute technique are most different from each other in the matter of breathing and phrasing (more so that fingering and ornamentation). So if looking for someone to model my whistle playing after I would choose a whistle player. It's hard to go wrong with listening to Mary Bergin. Not only is she a great player but also an iconic player, whose style has had (or has appeared to me to have had) a huge impact.

Let me explain. Back when I first got Mary Bergin's Feadoga Stain album (vinyl of course) I was blown away by the crisp highly articulated virtuosity, so different from the way I was playing on the flute. (My heroes were all fluteplayers and I copied them as best I could.) Around the time that album came out I was exposed to two great local players who played in a very similar style, one an Irish person who had recently immigrated, one an American who had recently returned from living in Ireland for a number of years. These two would sit at session and play every track of Feadoga Stain note for note. I got the impression that, back in Ireland, either Mary Bergin's style and repertoire were widespread and/or her album was very influential, because the only two "real" whistleplayers I knew played her style and repertoire. They had acquired this back in Ireland, not after arriving here, as I understood.

So it could do no harm, and do much good, to do a load of listening to Mary Bergin and try to soak in her style. I, personally, would think it better for a newcomer to the music to begin with a mainstream iconic style rather than seek out an obscure unusual fringe style.

...how to break the stream of notes into more expressive segments?

Are you talking articulation, or breathing spots? As I mentioned on another thread, I attended a workshop back in the 80s where the teacher had transcribed several Mary Bergin medleys including fully notated articulation. It was amazing to have it spread out to see, just where she tongued and where she didn't. Those handwritten transcriptions were the only example of fully notated Irish flute or whistle music I have ever seen. So, it's up to you to listen and figure it out, like everyone has done for generations.

About breathing spots, I have always been attracted to the Irish fluteplayers who turn the necessity of putting gaps into the flow to their advantage, and use these to put great rhythm and lift and drive into their playing. Some have the gaps in the same place every time a particular phrase is repeated, so that the gaps are part of their arrangement. I love listening to Michael Tubridy in this regard. Other fluteplayers play with more flow and put the gaps in unobtrusive places, many varying the placement of the gaps so that the listener gains over the various repeats a full impression of the tune. One such is Paddy Carty.

I know that as a general rule I want to drop notes which are *not* on the beat or sub-beat, but I don't have a good feel for what shapes are more idiomatic.

Not sure what you mean. The gap can come after you 'hit' a note on a main beat, for sure. You'll hear Mary Bergin and pretty much everyone else do it.

In a reel the notes in a bar can be thought of as being in two groups of four notes each. If there's a roll situation, where the melody 'parks' on a note, a gap can be put in after the roll or during the roll.

So putting in the gap during the first roll of a bar could be

GGGA BBBd > G' GA BBBd or GGG' BBBd or a big gap G''A BBBd.

Roll situations, where the melody parks on a note for several beats, is an easy obvious place to put in a gap. There are of course innumerable other places.

[squidgirl]

I just want to say a quick thanks for everyone's responses. I'm still digesting, more later.

[tenorTim]

I don't have much to add to the conversation in terms of advice, but just wanted to add that I've also struggled with warming up to reels. Recently I wrote out all of my regular tunes and was shocked to see how few reels I can play, compared to jigs. The reels I do know are often "Hornpipe-ified" as you said. It's kind of a hard habit to break when you play banjo on the side! It's just so much fun to hop along through all of those reels that people usually blaze right through!

Still, I'd eventually like to play my reels in the "correct" rhythm. I guess that means more practice and more listening!

[trill]

FWIW,

For a given tempo, I think reels are simply more demanding than jigs. Specifically, they demand faster finger movements.

For example, at 120bpm, a jig's basic note-rate is 6 beats-per-second (bps). For a reel at 120bpm, the basic-note-rate is 8bps. That's 33% more notes per unit time. It's simply faster and more demanding. If that doesn't sound like much, ask your favorite neurons.

I know of only one way to get reels up to tempo: start slow and gradually ramp up the speed. Yes, the breathpoints will change as you increase speed. But, honestly, once you've done a few tunes, it's no big deal.

Certainly, breath-points, ornaments, and breath-pushes can be used to emphasize phrasing. But, mastering the basic tune, up to tempo, is a foundation on which to add those goodies.

trill

[Mr.Gumby]

There are so many things that make one tune (or tune type) harder to pull of than the next one. I don't think such a mechanistical approach as note counting is very useful. The ease you move your fingers with, that's really (mostly) a matter of dedication and practice. Once you get past a certain stage, it's not really an issue you should have to consider much.

But make sure you can walk before you run.

As I said above, take a nice simple reel with a clear and simple structure and practice it. Here's one, one of the Potts/Moloney tunes (as far as I remember, haven't heard that recording for decades). It was a simple statement-reply structure, nice rhythm and easy fitting breathing spots.


Did you wash your father's shirt?

You can also try:

The Monaghan Twig

which again has a very clear rhythmic structure to it.

Similarly there's the last of the 'three Kilfenora reels', again, a very simple rhythmic structure, spread over three three parts

Tear the Callico

Once you can recognise and bring out the structure in tunes like that, the more compelx ones will get easier.






FWIW, I think good jig playing is harder to find than good reel playing. What does that tell you?

[squidgirl]

Thank you! Aside from the usefulness, & relevance, I always enjoy how your recordings demonstrate how a whistle can the tune all by itself.

I wanted to report in that I've had some real progress, though mulling over musical stuff seems to interfere with my ability to write much, or else (worse) trying to write about musical stuff before it's finished mulling can stop the learning from continuing to ripen. So I've been doing music instead of typing.

One thing that has helped a lot is pacing around the house when I'm alone, kind of lilting fragments of reels under my breath, and getting a feel for what different breathing-places feel like.

Another thing going on that's helped, is sorting out my "native" musical expectations, which seem to be the results of growing up in Detroit during the Motown era, versus the very different idioms of Irish music (which I enjoyed at Irish festivals at a kid, but rarely heard outside those yearly events).

I think it also helps that in the months prior to this, I'd been exploring Appalachian old-time fiddle tunes on the mandolin. I was starting to get a feel for how bluegrass diverged from old-time, and how the influence of African rhythmic complexities mutated the of Scots/Irish music from Appalachia.

[Mr.Gumby]

Aside from the usefulness, & relevance, I always enjoy how your recordings demonstrate how a whistle can the tune all by itself.

Well, I hope these clipeens were useful and got the point of the statement-response structure across. That's really the foundation you build your tune on and the tune itself is a constant re-iteration of the same structure.

I am missing an operative word in the quote above: destroy, murder, wreck, carry, play? A whole spectrum could fit, there's one to fit anybody's taste. Very ambiguous.

[JS]

Mr. Gumby, my thanks too for the demonstration clips and all of the useful advice.

[squidgirl]

I am missing an operative word in the quote above: destroy, murder, wreck, carry, play? A whole spectrum could fit, there's one to fit anybody's taste. Very ambiguous.

Oops! I'm somewhat notorious for that: I don't just do typos, I do entire word-o's. Yes, I meant carry the tune all by itself!